OK, so Fred Durst And The Misogynist Boy Brigade have been temporarily thwarted. That’s all well and good, but there’s still the pressing threat of messer Bush removing that rather controversial of rights, abortion, along with a whole list of legislature to keep women’s pay low and those pesky ‘liberals’ at bay.
Kathleen Hanna is a woman who has never been afraid to stand up for what she believes in and shout it from the rooftops. Whether thrashing out punk anthems Bikini Kill or turning out dancefloor-ready disco pop as on ‘This Island’, Hanna has always had something to say, and never has her message sounded so clear.
When Kurt Cobain noted that “even liberals don’t like smart women,” he wasn’t lying. Those people who tut about the war from their armchairs would cringe at much of this album, particularly ‘Viz’ – a butch lesbian anthem written from the firsthand experience of Le Tigre’s JD Samson. Nor would they likely appreciate the rather blunt protest song ‘New Kicks’. But if we can’t rely on these gals to tell it like it is, who exactly can we?
All of which is rather a shame, considering that those same people will be missing out on the rather brilliant ‘TKO’, the after hours charm of ‘Tell You Now’ and their rather smashing cover of The Pointer Sisters’ ‘I’m So Excited’. Still, striking the balance between preaching to the converted and selling a million albums has never really been top of Hanna’s agenda.
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but in parts a very good album. indeed.
I like that fact that we at DiS have stopped giving everything 4/5. How we grow up.
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Le Tigre - This Island
What a dilemma last night presented:
Seafood at ULU vs. Le Tigre at the Academy in Islington.
Apologies girls but ver 'food were triumphant!
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I've checked out the stockists on the web, but I damned if I can find it in HMV or Virgin in London.
Loose Lips and Careless Talk, fine, but Plan B? Nope.
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For this one, I know that Phonica on Poland St have a couple of copies behind the counter (and a free one to peruse by the sofas), Selectadisc had one left last weekend, and that both Rough Trades do tend to order more once their initial quota has gone, but it's incredibly difficult to keep tabs on all the individual shops we're sold in across the country.
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Le Togre where excellant last night despite the Islington Academy being horrible in every sense of the word and the ridiculously early show.
I bloody hate early shows.
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I'm not sure that the Bush brigade's feelings against abortion are that 'anti-feminist'. It's not the same as having a male only golf club based on the idea that women are inferior beings, that would clearly be a sexist policy. I agree netirely on the paperwork movements to 'keep the women down', the existence of the Old Boy Network in the US is at least as strong as it ever was in the UK and the class system is flourishing strong in the land of the free. But abortion is different because it's approached from a religious aspect, their protest is entirely religion based. If men had the ability to become pregnant (and Lord knows I've tried hard enough after work) then would anyone really believe that the religious Right would approve abortion for a pregnant male but to remove that right for a pregnant female? Remember: the majority of abortion doctors murdered by the pro-life numpties are male.
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The right (which let's not forget, IS the Christian/religious sector)'s argument that abortion is against God's will is a fantastic way of convincing middle class women with kids to vote conservatively. Any politician will know this and THAT's why they take such a strong stance on the issue.
Remember, rougly 1 in 3 women in the US/UK have an abortion. If all those women were saddled with a baby, that would remove them from the full-time workforce at least temporarily, or even more likely put them in that most sacred of positions, the "traditional family". Frankly, does the government care if women get beaten up or raped by their husbands? Of course not. It wants women out of the workforce so that it has lower unemployment rates to wow the country with.
Plus, of course, women with babies who are determind left-wingers have less time and energy to put into advancing their rights. If Bush and co. remove sex education, the right to abortion and the availability of contraception as they are already plugging for, imagine how many more women will be stuck at home looking after children. An ideal situation for them, I think you'll find.
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So yes, banning abortion would be a huge knock back for womens rights, feminism etc, and clearly a stupid idea. But these things would be side-effects of some other people's dubious (but on the most part genuinely-held) moral beliefs, and not the primary / delibarate aim of most anti-abortionists.
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I'm not saying all anti-abortionists do it for these reasons, but the fact that religious and politic leaders constantly go on about how "evil" it is influences housewives into voting on that issue, when it would not normally be of much importance to them. If anyone's interested in this stuff, read Susan Faludi's immaculately researched 'Backlash'. It's quite incredible.
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Nah, the way I see it they just think, hmm, a lot of voters out there seem to be morally opposed to abortion, therefore if I use that morality in my speeches and policy making and so forth that'll earn me a lot of votes right now. It's not like they walk into work with an evil grin and think, 'hmm, what can I do today to supress women and keep them in the kitchen where they belong.... aha! a ban on abortion'. Caracuring your opponents like that is just a bit silly and pointless and above all unrealistic. I'm not saying these people are all lovely and well intentioned but I think they're mainly motivated by morality or at least setting out to reflect the morality of a significant set of voters in order to get votes.
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Totally, when you come into power, you know you've got four years in the US, maybe eight if you're lucky/paid off the right people. The anti-abortion feeling is one that has its roots in a perceived morality to me.
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I utterly disagree Tom. If you were to ask the average woman what would be a great hindrance to their advancement as a gender out of a choice of a) abortion laws introduced that banned the procedure or b) sexist working regulations that treated women as second-class citizens and wilfully kept them out of any seat of power, I’m pretty which choice most women would go for. The idea that politicians would prefer women not to have abortions to keep down the employment rate is a curious one both socially and economically. Consider the notion that the majority of abortions are carried out on women who are not in a stable relationship. If those women then keep that child, you have a whole new avenue to follow, that of social welfare. The UK, US and Canada are looking to reduce social payments, mainly because of the upcoming threat of the retiring baby boomers. The social state is under incredible stress, from hospitals to a lack of family doctors. Most governments would prefer higher unemployment set against lower social welfare payments because higher payments causes bigger deficits, something that the current US administration has been tossed over a hot fire for. No matter how naïve Bush is, I do not believe that his administration is convinced that, by banning abortion, more couples will stay together, more families be created and somehow society will be turned into this glorious golden edifice that potentially gets them out of the financial shithole they've dug and burnig a big warm lovey wave over the US. If they do then that ideal is grossly outdated and totally unrealistic. More kids represents a huge financial burden to the state: from pre-school nursery to day care centres to the provision of schools and teachers.
There are far more sexist issues to be confronted, the Old Boy Network attitude that percolates many frames of ‘higher society’ being one. Abortion is not simply a ‘sexist’ issue, you seem to downplay the religious aspect to this a fair deal and that’s surprising given the clear impact that Bush’s faith has on him. If you saw the last election debate between Kerry and Bush, the only time GW actually looked calm and settled was when he was talking about his faith and what it meant to him. Compare the Right feelings on abortion to their feelings on the death penalty: abortion is held up as murder and then the death penalty is seen as the ultimate punishment for committing the ultimate sin. That’s a very black and white viewpoint influenced primarily by religious belief.
Check the attitudes toward abortion in less developed countries where religion is more prevalent than the US. The feelings against abortion in many Latin American countries doesn’t stem from political fear or economic viewpoints: it’s plainly and simply the idea that abortion is murder. There isn’t a sexism inherent in there, be it Uruguay or Argentina, it’s a belief that abortion is calculated and wanton murder. In terms of the current US election, the abortion issue really hasn’t been at the forefront at all, it’s been a very sidelined issue as the men talk about guns n’ bombs n’ diplomacy/lack of it and certainly not an issue one could hope to win an election on.
Banning abortion wouldn’t just be a setback for women’s rights, it would be a setback for the rights of all people who desire the freedom to run their own lives without being dictated to by someone else‘s rules that are somewhat dubious in their composition, be they female, gays, blacks, Buddhists, anyone who wants to live in a modern thinking society that doesn’t have these blasted throwback methods of dictating over people. It would be a kick in the teeth to anyone who’s outside of that precious mainstream bracket and set back personal development. I personally am pro-choice not because I support some feminist viewpoint but because I do not believe the state has any right to interfere in one of the hardest choices any human being can make.
Ooh Faludi... she's good, most definitely. My ma-in-law's a professor who dabbles in Gender Studies, I've heard her swoon over some passages and then denouce her as utter bullshit. Being male, I just crept back to the sink, slipped on my marigolds and dreamed off the day when I could watch football in my underwear, farting and belching on an hourly basis...
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"If you were to ask the average woman what would be a great hindrance to their advancement as a gender out of a choice of a) abortion laws introduced that banned the procedure or b) sexist working regulations that treated women as second-class citizens and wilfully kept them out of any seat of power, I’m pretty which choice most women would go for."
But that's the point. If everyone knew where the problems were rooted, then they'd have done more about it. People take on the symptoms ("sexist working regulations") rather than the cause. If an equal number of women can't get into the workplace because they are housewives then how can this change?
"The idea that politicians would prefer women not to have abortions to keep down the employment rate is a curious one both socially and economically."
What is the main priority of the government? To make the country work economically or to convince the public that it works economically? I say it's the latter. We couldn't exist as we do unless women work, but Christian values state that they should be at home. The Republicans have a long history of giving tax cuts and even cash supplements to families with full-time housewives. It's true that there would unavoidably be more single mums if abortion was removed, however the Church/Right ideally aims to keep couples together (and married) whatever the circumstances.
"If they do then that ideal is grossly outdated and totally unrealistic."
The Religious Right are outdated? You don't say.
"If you saw the last election debate between Kerry and Bush, the only time GW actually looked calm and settled was when he was talking about his faith and what it meant to him."
And he looked decidedly unsettled when on the subject of abortion, if I remember clearly. Faith is an easy topic because the vast majority of American voters have some belief and so long as it's not particularly specific ("God is our leader, he believes all of us should have a chance at life, blah blah") then no one will raise an eyebrow.
"The feelings against abortion in many Latin American countries doesn’t stem from political fear or economic viewpoints: it’s plainly and simply the idea that abortion is murder."
I don't know an awful lot about Latin America, but the idea that abortion is murder presumably comes from their religious leaders. And if so, the exact same principle applies. Especially if you believe that religion was basically invented - or at least refined - so that the public are controllable.
"Banning abortion wouldn’t just be a setback for women’s rights, it would be a setback for the rights of all people who desire the freedom to run their own lives without being dictated to by someone else‘s rules"
Abso-fucking-lutely. I'm a man (last time I checked) and my main concern is the rights of the individual, any individual. This is why I am a feminist and not the other way around. If people want to drug themselves or kill themselves (particularly when ill) or whatever it should be up to them, not the government to decide. The only time they should get involved if people are hurting other people against their will.
What I and the Right disagree on is that the potential for human life is the same as a human life. The Catholic Church basically says that not only can you not use contraception, but that if you do you are responsible for murder. Not only that, but if a woman doesn't continuously try to get pregnant at all times, they are committing a sin. Of course, they don't shove THAT down peoples throats anymore because people would balk at the idea today, but that's what the church has said for centuries and hardliners still believe it.
In the '80s a woman who had had cancer for years and lost both her legs to it got pregnant with her doctor's say-so and the cancer returned. Instead of asking her permission, the governers ruled that instead of treating her they would drug her into a coma so she would live longer and have the baby (albeit prematurely). The baby was removed via caesarian early and died as a result. They revived the woman to tell her the baby had died. She slipped into a coma within hours, by this point untreatable and died soon after.
This year, in Texas I believe, a woman was put on trial for murder because she refused to have a caesarian and one of her twins died in child birth. The government is also intent on bringing in a law that means if a woman miscarries after being attacked, then the attacker is resposible for the murder of the foetus. Superficially most Americans (again mostly middle class mothers) are going to love this, but in a more sinister light it's obvious that this is going to make pregnant women responsible for murder if they miscarry and their behaviour is not deemed "suitable" by the authorities.
It's a very complex issue and not at all what it immediately seems.
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The main priority of government is actually both things of which you speak. They have to convince the populous that they are running things economically as nobody likes seeing those tax dollars/pounds wasted. Within financial circles though and certainly within the international economic community, you actually have to have the figures to show that you are working economically. The notion that it is somehow better financially in these morally Christian capitalist times for women to breed and produce children instead of working is utterly daft. The Republicans have given tax cuts and cash payments to some: at the same time they have also slashed benefits and increased the cost of public services such as colleges and daycare centres whilst simultaneously reducing the number/frequency of these public services. The like of George Pataki are infamous for such grandiose plans. It makes for no fiscal sense to have more benefit claiming people out there and no sense for a greater number of children to provide for. I think you really do skim over the Christian moralistic influence on Bush’s policies, whether during his time as President or as a State Governor. His stance on stem cell cloning is basically the same as his anti-abortion stance ie. That it’s wrong to fuck with the unborn. There’s no sexist element in his stem cell argument. Alternatively, his Christian beliefs helped him execute a tremendous amount of murderers/alleged murderers in his state, the ultimate sin rewarded with the ultimate consequence. In the abortion field, it smacks less of sexism and more of old-school religious gibberish. Therefore if one calls that old-school gibberish sexist toward women, should other religions be targeted for being at least as sexist and, in some cases, far worse through acts such as female circumcision? Is it simply because it feels easier to attack a white Christian viewpoint than a Muslim or Hindu viewpoint?
During the entire campaign, the abortion ticket has been very much on the periphery. It’s not a vote-winning subject, therefore I wonder if Bush’s slightly dazed reaction was really down to not expecting such a question or having not prepared thoroughly on it whilst his mind is plagued with Iraq.
The Melissa Ann Rowland case is a little more complex than just simple 'Chick says no to being cut open: brat dies as a result' as it calls into play her mental state and the ability of the state to determine whether she can function rationally on her own and make her own informed decisions. It's decidedly interesting and seems almost a modern day throwback to a Francis Framer-style scenario. There’s a fine Counterpunch article on it here:
http://www.counterpunch.org/giombetti04032004.html
I question your assertion that middle class mothers would be leaping for joy over this news, as if it’s only middle-class mothers who get beaten and attacked and who actually give a shit. You almost seem like you’re on some ‘middle classes are all religious and evil’ kick. Stop it! I also doubt how it is ‘obvious’ that pregnant women are going to be arrested on a murder trial if they miscarry. Are members of the CIA going to track pregnant women down and try to catch them smoking and drinking? Your arguments are pretty good except for this one as it’s not obvious and comes over as a bit too ‘1984’ for my tastes. But I agree wholeheartedly on your views on the retarded Catholic church approach to contraception, mucho applause for that.
Fun debates. DiS should open debating evenings in London pubs. It could be called 'Pints of Fury'.
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"The notion that it is somehow better financially in these morally Christian capitalist times for women to breed and produce children instead of working is utterly daft."
You're right, but it's also daft to go to war for no good reason, alienate yourself from your allies and remove sex education from schools. This is the Christian Right... they don't understand the meaning of logic. If it was up to them we'd be living in the middle ages and burning "witches" and "fairies" at the stake.
"they have also slashed benefits and increased the cost of public services such as colleges and daycare centres"
Absolutely, they have always had a huge interest in removing daycare. This is because it allows women to leave the house and work. Over the past couple of decades the Right have come up with some acutely bizarre scandals and statistics about daycare, in some failed attempt to propagandise it out of existence. Needless to say, it is far more statistically likely for a child to be abused at his home than it is in daycare.