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God bless America...

no votes
?
by Smileadelic
So come on then. Who's gonna win on Tuesday? Will it be George Bush? Or that other guy... you know... what's his name... exactly the same as George Bush policy-wise, but with maybe a slightly better jawline? Is this a case of "better the devil you know..."?

And how about a rigging sweepstake? Anyone up for that? Works like this: we all put in £1, bet on which particular scam we think is most likely to succeed in screwing everyone over, then whoever's closest the mark takes the winnings?

Of course, no discussion is complete without some solid representations from the American populace:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1329858,00.html

So bring it on:

Bush? Kerry?


















Nader?
*uproarious canned laughter*
Smileadelic | 28 Oct '04, 22:52 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: God bless America...

I'll be out in Canada watching CNN like a pregnant hawk on the night. My horrible gut feeling is that Bush will win. Too much bad shit has happened recently, the Fall is the worst season for me in terms of bad shit happening, not least Mr Peel's departure, and I think that the re-election of that shit-sucking bag of easily manipulated idiosyncracies will just about cap it off. If Bush is to lose then this current tale of vanishing Iraqi explosives will be the nail in the wall that cracks him.

Personally I think the UK elections will be far more interesting. The anti-love for Labour, the continued hate toward the Tories for Thatcher, the Liberal Democrats trying to shake off the mung bean image... three party systems make for more fun. Certainly the California elections for Governor were more entertaining than the GOP-Demo slugfest, Arnold versus a squawky woman versus a gangster looking Democrat versus Peter Camejo, a guy who is one of the most intelligent politicians I've seen anywhere (unsurprisingly he's not from the Big Two).


Re: God bless America...

Re Calif elections. This is the Calif I knew and loved. Gary Coleman running for governor is priceless! We had a stripper, too. It was even better than when Jello Biafra had a respectable showing as mayor of San Francisco. I happened to be in Minnesota at the time, who had their own bit of fun electing a professional wrestler as their governor a few years back. DrFurry you are so right about multiple party systems being better than the stodgy two party system we presently have in the states. Glad to see the UKs fringe parties are fairing better in recent times. I think it reflects a general dissatisfaction in the status quo. And that's a good thing.

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Bush will win, cos it's the path of least resistence. Like you said, better the devil you know.

I could give a fuck, but it's amazing how this particular election has stirred the populace. Couldn't even rightly say it's cos the war on terror or what-have-you cos we seem to get ourselves geared up for these mini-battles every 10 years or so. (But then Vietnam wasn't such a little scrap, was it?) So I dunno why the Bush/Kerry election is such a big deal. Of course, I'm a clueless libertarian, so that might explain why I'm so far from being in-the-know. Maybe you Euros can offer some insight here.

...No, not about me being clueless! About the election. Shite!

Re: God bless America...

I agree about it being the path of least resistence.

I guess I'd rather Kerry won... just... simply by virtue of the fact that he's not good ol' GW. I usually do a ludicrous amount of ranting about people not voting; this is one election where I would sort of understand people's decision to abstain.

The point is that, whoever wins, the difference to real politics in America (i.e., stuff other than Iraq) will be pretty negligible.

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I think Kerry might nick it. Everyone has Bush ahead in the polls, but there might be a surprise, methinks. I should be eligible to vote, but I'm not, it turns out. Bastards.

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whats with all the hype from britain about the american elections?maybe its because im young but can someone tell me why theyre of such great importance to england?apart from tony blair...

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Because their foreign policy has a major impact on the state of the world, so in a way this election's just as important for the rest of us as it is for them.

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I'd be tempted to agree with you, Raanraals, if it were a popular vote. But we gots this crazy electoral college system - as yer all probably familiar with due to the Dubya/Gore fiasco last election. The swing states look like gun-totin' rednecks to me. I could be wrong, though. I thought Al Gore was gonna be president. It was then I gave up on the general poplation having a wit of sanity. Gore wasn't all that, but Bush is an idiot. Watching Bush speak is like watching a drunk man cross an icy road.

I'd let you have my vote, except they don't like ex-dope fiends voting. Too much responsibility. So you and I, my friend, are gonna have to sit, watch and wait. Like the rest of the world. Besides, I think Tuesdays are a good night for Simpson's reruns.

Re: God bless America...

if it's as close on the day as it is now Bush will win because, as he did in 2000, he'll rig it.

In 2000, Al Gore received 50,992,335 votes nationwide and George W. Bush received 50,455,156 votes. After Bush was awarded the state of Florida, he had a total of 271 electoral votes, which beat Gore's 266 electoral votes. He won Florida because the Rebublicans
excluded black Democrats from voting, and because of all his buddies in the Supreme Court who orded that vote counting should stop.

Re: God bless America...

I think Kerry, but I'm less sure than I was before I went to the states.

I can't see florida going democrat, and beyond that i find it difficult imagine them picking up enough electoral votes from elsewhere. Ohio maybe? nah, i think Bush it will be.
And the left will secretly be very happy they can continue moaning and making money from a political counter-culture.

If Kerry somehow wins it'll be like Blair here - a couple of years in people will realise their world still looks the same and become disillusioned. Actually, the next morning they'll forget about politics...

Next President: hilary clinton or john edwards?

Re: God bless America...

It better be Kerry. Or we might as well push that big red button now.

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That first sentence was a mistake. I meant to say: "i think Bush, but i'm less sure now.."

The thing is that Bush hasn't really done that much damage yet: the worry is only in terms of foreign policy, where next?

But will he go it alone? There's no way Britain would support going to war again. And can he domestically justify more pre-emptive action?
my suspicion is that he'd have great difficulty. Although he'll win it exactly be a resounding mandate (i think he'll lose the popular vote, by more than he did last time).

And as for all the scary stuff about abortions and such like, the repulicans are always on about that, i doubt they'd ever get it into law.

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Someone in America sent me a link to some scary stuff recently. It was a US/Israeli group, calling for votes for Kerry. Their reason was that Bush was, in their eyes, far too liberal regarding the Palestinians, whereas Kerry has a 100% voting record concerning Israeli issues, and will unconditionaly support them regardless of their methods.

No matter who wins, I think we're looking at people who want to set up a puppet Palestinian government, the same as Iraq. We'll need to see what the future holds regarding America and Britains involvement in regime changes in the area, protecting Israel, the areas only apartheid state, sorry, democracy. What's going to happen with North Korea is anyones guess.

I was at the dentist on Tuesday, just before I heard about John Peel. The radio was tuned to a phone in. It was about the illegal jewish settlements. One of the 'experts' was saying they should be allowed as many as they want, as the Palestinians are uncultured oiks, who live like pigs and have never built anything of importance, compared to nice jewish settlements, with airconditioning and swimming pools.

Why should they bother building anything when the Israelis are going to either steal it or bulldoze it and anyone who stands in the way ?

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Rock Bitch, I guess the reason there is so much perss coverage here is because America is so powerful and the UK is one of it's leading Allies....

I too reckon Bush will win. Do you think having Kerry in charge would have an impact on the day to day lives of the average American?


Re: God bless America...

The Australian and US elections have perhaps been in more focus than usual in the UK because of the Iraq war. The Australian election was meant to be the first barometer of public opinion for the political guidemasters to pour over in terms of judging whether the public were for or against the party that led them into conflict. If there had been a huge Aussie backlash against John Howard then the Number 10 spinmeisters would certainly have been worried. As it was, Howard is still in power and the liberal revolution didn't happen over there.

If the Aussie election was the first indicator then the US election result is going to be critical to Blair. If America does vote Bush out then that is a real statement of opinion. Blair's backed Bush every step of the way therefore to see his master ditched out of power will send shivers up the Blair spine. Public opinion drives these people. There's an amusing quote from Simon Hoggart in the Guardian a few years back that seems pertinent:

"I'm often amazed at the way politicians -who spend hours poring over opinion poll results in a desperate attempt to discover what the public thinks- are certain they know precisely what God's views are on everything"

I agree with those who believe that a Kerry victory will be rather Blairlike in the disillusionment it brings. The current Bush regime is Thatcherlike in how the country is: crap healthcare, a lack of work, tax jiggerypokery, a focused stream of public dislike... to ask Kerry to repair all of that within one term is simply asking the impossible. The sad thing is that people think it will change overnight and that is wholy unrealistic. There are foreign ties and internal ties that Bush has ripped up and shat all over, repairing those will take a hell of a long time.

If Kerry doesn't win then I believe the Democrats should look to Edwards for the next Presidential candidate. There's no doubt that he's a well-spoken intelligent individual as is Kerry but he can present himself as the 'easy guy' much better than Kerry, his accent being one part of that easier presentation. I know many would be calling for Hillary Rodham Clinton not least on the ticket of equal opportunities and the importance of having a woman running for high office but I feel the Republican PR guys would tear her apart, there's too much history there.

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I know it's not directly related but what are peoples views on the palestine issue? In terms of America/The western view of Palestine (i.e. that of Governments) and what is YOUR view on the situation?

Re: God bless America...

We went over this with the Farenheit 9/11 thread. Basically i don't have a huge amount of sympathy for the Palestinians.

Re: God bless America...

be anti bush and anti Israel (with theri current governments)

Re: God bless America...

Sorry, I will look the post up...........I don't get the chance to read everyone ya see

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Dont bother, it consisted of a long long argument.

Re: God bless America...

you clearly have researched and analysed the subject to an extremely minimal extent.

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and why is that?

Re: God bless America...

That's an interesting quote regarding politician's interpetations of God's message. Being in such high echeons of power subjects political figures to delusions of grandeur ("Je suis France" - De Gaulle 1960's) and a country with such a fervent religious bent like the United States is bound to reflect that in its elected leaders.

There are parallells to be drawn with Labour's victory in 1997 (resurgent opposition party backed by considerable popular support) but Bush will probably win again due to the reduction of the election essentially to scaremongering and creating an atmosphere of fear. Coupled with the fact that Kerry's policies are so indistinguishable from Bush (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3958781.stm) many people are probably confused and don't really know what they're voting for with the Democratic candidate.

And a defeat for Bush would mean the end for Blair, I believe. Perhaps not Labour - the Tories are still a lost cause - but Blair's standing in Britain is delicate to say the least and an American erjection of his opposite number will probably be enough to convince members of his own party that he's too much of a liability to stand for a third term.

Re: God bless America...

i frankly dont care.........theyre all crap

Re: God bless America...

Re: Bush defeat = end for Blair

I think Michael Portillo came close to saying something similar the other night (although i may be wrong; i woke up half way through him saying it). But I don't really think it has any bearing on Blair. It's not like Kerry is gonna be able to pull out of Iraq before the next election, and maybe the critics of the war might let up a bit from america - giving blair some breathing space. On the other hand, if a candidate as poor john kerry can win, then maybe there is hope for michael howard...

The advantage for Blair in Bush being re-elected, as I see it, is that he'll be able to disagree when Bush starts aiming towards another war. And appear to have influence.


And, on the religion thing: the problem isn't really that it's a religious country. It's the manifestation of that religion. The media and information culture that is based on lies. And politics suffers from the same thing. There's not enough dialogue. That's why you get happy rich white people who think those in poverty deserve to be there, and black men on street corners proclaiming jesus was a black man.

And all these cynical politicians studying opinion polls. Disgraceful isn't it? Careerist politicians doing exactly what the public wants...

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The general consensus is that Kerry might end up being in Iraq longer than a re-elected Bush would be. Intriguing idea.. end up taking the flak for another's shitebrained plan.

Drunk, arse, me. Yes. But yes, the US ain't a hugely religious country and I've spent the evening browbeating an acquaintance for being dumb when he assumes they're all redneck Christ gobblers. The thing is the influence that faction has. If they were all Satanists then cool fucks on Fifth Avenue would be drinking virgin blood right now.

Don't opinion polls suck the biggest balls? 650 people make up yer poll that says 'This is what a nation of 290 million plus wants'. It fellates the giant big pink stick for me. Yummy!

Les spolitics, let me go and make fatuous remarks about the Others now. Bleurgh. I like cider.

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Urgh... too much vodka... think i may have volunteered to go to a halloween party tomorrow. if i can find someone to go with me. i hope so. i like halloween, it's my favourite non-holiday holiday.

the reminder as to the suckiness of opinion polls was very welcome. i was beginning to get quite excited about Ohio today. And wrongly. It is a key state: if Bush wins it, he'll win...

Damn right about it not being redneck right wing chistian loony land over there. but a hell of a lot of very sensible people do believe in God that you dont get in the UK. I like that, seeing I believe in him/her too. Everyone thinks i'm fucking crazy for thinking that here...

I need to go to bed now. Then get up and make a latern out of a turnip. Wonder how many potato peelers I'll break hollowing it out this year....

Re: God bless America...

I don't mean to suggest they're all Christian rednecks and neither was I criticising faith. I do however think that religion has a disproportionately large influence on American politics than, say, Ireland, Britain or France. The perception of the US being a cabal of Christian fundamentalists is due to the fact that the neoconservatives have power at the moment. But in the same way that just because the Taliban held power in Afghanistan didn't mean the entire nation was filled with Islamic fundamentalists, America isn't filled with bigoted madmen. It's got quite a few but I have a pretty altruistic belief that nations are populated by mostly sane, rational people.

And I do think that Blair's future as Prime Minister rests largely on the outcome of the US election. Many people in Britain associate Blair with Bush, some would say equate them, and I think that there are larger portions of the electorate that are tired of Blair now than there have been previously. The Labour Party MP's aren't stupid and they may be convinced to quietly ask him not to run in 2005. If I'm wrong in a few months, I'll hold my hands up. But as I see it at the moment the Bush/Blair axis is seen as being quite symbiotic - from this side of the Atlantic at least.

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I hope to God Bush wins, but im prepared for the worst.

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Anyone watch that show last night about religion in American politics? Scary... The evangelicals sound fucking evil. All the Americans I know are nice guys, no crazy religious nutjobs, but the god squad over there just has too much influence over government,and imho the republicans more than the democrats.

Thats the biggest reason I'd vote Kerry, it just feels like Bush is more in line with the hardcore rightwingers and American Al-Qaeda, even if their policy is the same its good knowing the president isn't about to bring back 'Christian family values'... We all know what that means! Always respect religions, but all the extremists are as bad as each other.


Re: God bless America...

Well, looks like it's gonna be four more years!

Re: God bless America...

I knew they'd re-elect Bush. Honestly, there's a whole lot of morons in that country giving decent Americans a bad name.

Still, this means that in 4 years time Hilary will be all set to run for president. She might actually sort out the deepening health care crisis that makes the most powerful nation in the world a complete joke. Also, Bush has seemingly set his country up for an economic fall over the next few years. At least Bush will have to deal with that and the Democrats can't be blamed for wrecking the country and increasing the deficit that Bush has been amassing. Bush will be one hated figure in 4 years time.

So go Hilary for 2008!

Re: God bless America...

on that note, I can see John Edwards as president one day, he definitely has the clinton charm that the greater american audience will go for.

Re: God bless America...

you're kidding? kerry has all the charisma of freshly splattered road kill! as for that bouffant....


Re: God bless America...

oops! misread yet again.

still, my point about the bouffant remains!

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I'm so angry, how can this happen, are there really so many stupid americans, or is the country just that currupt.

WW3 - the fight for resources grows ever closer.




Re: God bless America...

I'm surprised anyone on these boards could support Bush. He just seems so ridiculously inane, the strings being pulled by the likes of Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz, and John Ashcroft, who is dangerous. Very dangerous. This is my argument I posted on 'thefootballforum.net' in their general chat section:

The whole war on terror has been completely distorted by Bush. Let's face it, neither America or Britain is going to be attacked by Islamic terrorists again. Al-Qaeda died as a coherent organisation in the Tora Bora campaign in Afghanistan. What has in fact happened is that hundreds of terrorist splinter groups have been set up by anti Western individuals. The good thing for us, is that they only operate in their own country against their present government and not directly attack us. The whole idea of Bin Laden being the leader of a global terrorist network is utter bull. American voters obviously lacked the presence of mind to work out that there aren't going to be any direct terrorist attacks against them, particularly the vast amounts of Republican voters in Midwest states, like North Dakota. Who would want to attack North Dakota? Domestically, Bush's Republican government has messed up the economy, lost hundreds of thousands of jobs and seen the gap between rich & poor in America increase. In fact, I believe that he invaded Iraq in the first place, not to get rid of Saddam Hussein because 'he was a danger' and 'that he had weapons of mass destruction', but to save face and concentrate the media on non-domestic issues. Again the most seemingly stupid and sheep like people of the world get to choose the most powerful. How ridiculous.

I could probably say more about America's social problems, gun culture, obesity epidemic, healthcare, low levels of literacy/numeracy and so on, but because I listened to the results to 4.30 last night and woke up at 7 to go to college, so I'm a bit tired.

THOM

Re: God bless America...

well omg.. i cant believe .. actualy i can believe what s going on... well lets see... kerry.. if you couldnt win against bush liek that.. u really must worth nothing to that country... look how much bosh made it eaiser for you to win and look at you.. you lost.. so tell me how good are you to the country? bush... shut up and just solve the problems ...
arghh i hate both of them.. why cant there be someone DECENT ???

Re: God bless America...

You're looking for a decent politician? I fear your search will be a long, fruitless one, my friend.