Anyone from this neck of the woods care to recommend some promoters I can harang for shows?
[band] is noisy but nice. Think Sonic Youth, Sleater Kinney, Electrelane, Can, Grant Hart, Unwound, Kinski, Explosions, Neubauten, Swell Maps, Jackie O motherfucker, Hangedup, Crime and the City Solution.
That kind of shit.
.
I'm sure these guys have myspaces or can be googled...
Damn you!
probably the best.
yeh
www.damn-you.co.uk
although maybe thats not cliquey enough as im recommending other promoters
actually
no hyphen
try
up your bum :-)
been there
done that
how was it?
yeah, nice one
good way to endear yrself.
chris/DY
look
I've been trying to get band a show in Nottingham for almost a year now. We're really not *that* bad and have succeeded in securing gigs pretty much everywhere else we've tried.
The title was a direct quote from a recent discussion on this here forum about Nottingham, designed to get people to actually read the post.
....
mate you can't force people to put your band on - especially not DIY promoters who are doing what they do for love and making no money (in fact probably loosing a fair bit of it) from their gigs...
also, if they promoters in a certain city don't want to put you on then trust them - it's probably because they know that your style/music wont go down well with their audiences. why would you want to play a gig somewhere where the audience didn't appreciate you? tastes vary massively across this broad land. what seems exciting and bold in Brighton might seem contrived and dull in Carlisle....
incidentally Damn You have never put on a single band that I've asked them to - but so what? I still think they have great taste in bands and they were one of the promoters/labels that inspired me to start promoting myself. great posters too.
Supernight are one of my favourite promoters in Nottingham; Dan at the Social is a total gent - I wish there were more in house promoters around like him; Saggy Pants are doing good things in Notts too...
hm
i'm not exactly the biggest sailplanes fan in the world but i think you're being a bit unfair. there are loads of promoters outside of london who'll put on little bands.
"if they promoters in a certain city don't want to put you on then trust them - it's probably because they know that your style/music wont go down well with their audiences."
that's bollocks.
sorry.
are you saying that the whole population of that city won't like one little band?
"why would you want to play a gig somewhere where the audience didn't appreciate you?"
there you go tim sailplane. don't try for a gig in this city. yr not wanted!
love,
adietron.x
ps. i know i've probably misread this whole email thing but i think it's a bit silly...
...
no: I'm saying a promoters' auidence wont like a certain band. for example I put on either very, very loud/noisy stuff or very, very quiet stuff - if I put on something inbetween I have to work triply hard to get people to come along....
and there are regionally differences in the UK, despite the very London-centric nature of the music press. On one tour I went on a band that had 2 encores in Manchester got heckled and booed in Bristol (by the people that didn't walk out).
For the record I saw The Sailplanes in London recently and wasn't sold. sorry. it just didn't grab me in anyway
Mmmmm
marmite.
Nice one
Tim, any other promoters you wanna piss off while you're at it. I'll strike Nottingham off the list.
But I will say this: I know promoters get inundated with 'please listen etc etc' especially on Myspace but just a quick listen and a reply saying 'yay' or 'nay - you're poop, leave me alone' would be good. They wouldn't get hassled again! I think I'm going off the subject here, I'll get off my orange box.
try
the good people at
Good name for a racehorse records/ Talibam promotions.
S'worth a go.
ta
the lovely 'Exploits of Elaine people', I haven't spoken to them in a while.
theyre putting on more and more shows nowadays.
dirty students.
All this stuff about Nottingham being cliquey....
...It's totally true. Right now, as I type, I'm involved in a mass orgy. It's filthy. There's most of the DamnYou! crew, Supernight, the 593 Collective, Mantile, Blackest Rainbow and Default This. Bologna Ponys galore! Patch from Knee Knees is busy recording the whole thing through a contact mic and feeding it via a small speaker so it resonates on the surface of his tibetan bowl. He's going to release it as a limited edition (of 2)on a 1" CDR on Good Name for a Racehorse, but only once Whycliffe, Chris Olley and Stuart A Staples have added some vocals.
Oh yeah, and we're playing the Lords album while dead loud we're at it.
You get cheap entry with your highsoc card.
You forgot...
...With support from Felix.
Nottingham gives the appearance of being cliquey because it is small. I once spoke to Chris Lords at Supersonic Festival in Brum and although he didn't know me at all, we had a more than decent stop and chat.
slow clapping...
...this is what you have to do - TALK TO US.
Damn You doesn't put bands on unless we know them, thats the criteria. If we know you - in any way: which means if you've come to some of the gigs a few times or just said hi - then we'll put you on.
It's because we're trying to put together a sense of community so if you're coming out to the DY! gigs or your from another city and doing the same thing then we'll put your band on. It's never a decision based on quality whatsoever, although we obviously like a good band more than a shit one.
chris
i love you dave
..
In
all fairness to Tim, he's clearly had a bad day and exasperated with not getting replies to a zillion emails from certain promoters. We all get pissed off from time to time, no?
hey
There are several of them who post on the electrical.com forum - Lisa Thorr, Chris Sumerlin...
Dave
Sorry to have to disagree but the Nottingham scene is clique-y, and to prove my point, how many promoters support each other's gigs?
Except for the obvious few, you very rarely see other promoters or their mates/hangers-on/whatever at "rival" promoters shows, and I have evidence where other promoters and venues have gone out of their way to discredit another person's clubnight/show, not to mention numerous cases where bands/artists have been booked and announced for certain clubnights/shows only for other promoters and venues to then book them to play at their place a few weeks earlier!
As for The Sailplanes, I hope this post wasn't meant to be aimed at me, as I have been supportive of your band and even gave your last single a fairly positive review on this site.
Unfortunately, because of the cut throat nature of the Nottingham "scene" it makes it difficult for us to book too many bands on the same bill with no real profile in the city. For starters, everyone has overheads to cover, and I know that a band such as yours because of the distance you are travelling would not be able to play our show without some kind of financial guarantee, which we could not give as any payment made to bands is dependent on numbers through the door. This does not mean that we do not want your band to play at our night but I'm sure you'd rather be included on a bill where we can guarantee that a) you'll be playing to a full room; b) you'll be playing to people who would be more appreciative of your sound; c) your costs could almost certainly be covered.
Hope that makes sense.
Dom
Hmm....
I don't know. Damn You/Goodname For A Racehorse/Knees Knees seem to regularly turn up at each others gigs, as evidenced on this very Saturday. Both the promoters and the hangers on (me) were in attendence. Not to mention High Soc which is totally agnostic in recomending gigs regardless of promoters. The gig was also awash with other promoters handing out flyers for their gigs - eg Blackest Rainbow - as my stuffed pockets will testify.
Hmmm
indeed.
The last GNFAR show where you opened the show was only attended by the DiS promoters.
Certain promoters' audiences consist pretty much of people in local bands/Selectadisc staff.
Our regular audience consists of people from outside the city.
I guess thats just how its gonna be...
Ill...
try to turn up to the next DiS event! Thing is though, the bands are rarely up my street (although always good at what they do), so I have to save my pennies for other gigs.
No worries
mate!
Wasn't having a go at you or any of the GNFAR people. I know Dave comes to our shows if there's something on he likes and Exploits have DJd for us a few times.
Its some of the other promoters who cause the friction in the first place who get my back up.
nottingham
sounds really cutthroat!
It is
, and the people defending it on here know it is too!
it sounds quite fun...
like a dodgy pirate flick crossed with wayne's world.
'if you book the bands...they won't come, and I'll kill yer, GARR!'
selectadisc
selectadisc staff hardly ever come out to gigs! and who can blame them after being around all that bloody music all day bloody long!
Reasons
I go to about 5 or 6 gigs a week. Ever thought other nottingham promoters might not go to the DiS nights because the bands aren't very good?
I have never gone out of my way to 'pinch' another band or discredit another promoter. Its precisely because of the lack of cliqueyness in the city that so many gigs are co-promoted because of shared interests.
Yeah that
thought had crossed my mind BJD, but then when other promoters are booking/have booked the same bands that theory goes out the window!
As for the supposed lack of cliqueyness, can you explain to me then why certain promoters do not attend certain shows, allow other promoters to promote at their shows and openly criticise them in public?
And for the record, I am not just referring to the DiS night, which bar one or two instances, has been extremely successful to date considering the obstacles we've had to overcome from distinctly unhelpful promoters and venues around the city.
..and
there's nothing 'cut throat' about it. You put on bands with a demand for people to see them and people will come. If you like a band and no one else has heard of them then you tell people why they'll like it. It's called 'promoting'.
I'm sick of reading how shitty Nottm is from people who live here for about 6 months, put on 2 gigs, do one poster that no one sees and then complain that no one shows up and get in a fucking huff thinking it's like the mafia here or something.
It's like anything else, you work hard and it works out. I've put on gigs where no-one came and I learned from the mistakes though I bet there are plenty more round the corner. Its how it is.
i didn't mean cut throat like that...
i mean't the idea of promoters trying to discredit eachother's events. I don't know a thing about nottingham, really. I've had about 4 hours sleep, probably not making any sense, and, yeah. I'll back out of this one before I inadvertantly step on any toes.
I used to live in Nottingham
never found any of the Damn You gigs particularly cliquey. Not really sure who they are though - are the DY! guys the people who used to be in Reynolds, Hirameka Hi-Fi, etc? If so, then they actually seemed really friendly; but I was only going to these gigs as a punter, not a band / promoter.
If there ever felt like there was a clique it was the bunch of fuckheads who used to pose in the Rescue Rooms. So glad I don't live in Nottingham anymore.
Spot on
Cotty.
That's EXACTLY what certain other promoters do in this city.
I've
lived here since 1998 BJD and been putting on shows in Nottingham and its surrounding area for the last two years now.
You say it's not cutthroat, so explain to me why on 5 occasions this year - and bear in mind we've only put on 10 shows this year - bands we've booked have suddenly been booked to appear at other venues either weeks before or after our show, but advertised heavily before our night?
Not to mention bands who we've booked then cancelling because other promoters have subsequently offered more than we can afford (although I blame my other nemesis, agents, for that as well)?
At the end of the day BJD, I know things haven't exactly been rosy for you guys either where certain other people in the city are concerned, so I don't see why you publicly defend the indefensible so vehemently.
have you ever thought
that other people might have booked the bands that you have booked because they like them, and want to put them on? You can't demand exclusivity or anything; it's annoying, I know how you feel, but most bands like playing to people.
I dunno, it's hard to really comment unless you know the specific situation. If bands have cancelled agreed and confirmed gigs / prices just because they've been offered more elsewhere, then they're probably not worth worrying about.
If it happened
the once I'd agree with you, but FIVE times in less than a year???
More than a coincidence I believe...
which bands are you talking about?
please don't say Blood Red Shoes / Foals / any of the many bands that does fuckloads of gigs in every city all the time.
I dunno, you may well be right, in which case it's all pretty shit. I just find it hard to believe that promoting tiny shows can be that political without someone down the line, going 'hangabout guys, this is ridiculous.' If you're getting that hated though, good shit, you must be doing something right or something very very wrong.
Its not just our night
though. There've been others who it has happened to as well.
We've never tried to book either of the bands you mention, and at least two of the bands I'm talking about had never played this city before we boked em! Then ended up playing two shows in about 2 weeks!
I suppose we should take it as a compliment though, in that we're effectively a scouting system for other venues and promoters!
...
as somebody from outside the Nottingham (and therefore neutral) I have to say DGL that this all sound like sour grapes....
you're not being very convincing.
If bands are getting multpile bookings in a city blame the bands/their agents, not the promoters. alternatively it might be a sign that lots of people want to see them often.
Sour grapes? Not at all
Promoters also approach bands. We approach bands.
Venues approach bands.
However, if we book a band, advertise the show and sell tickets then why should another venue book the same band to play at their place a few days before our show?
I do blame the agents to a large degree - I know of a couple of instances (names withheld for obvious reasons) where we've had agreements with bands to play a show, their manager has found out and is unhappy because it's been arranged without the middleman, told the agent who's also unhappy for the same reason, who has then gone back to other promoters and venues in the city telling them what we are paying them and inviting offers to better that, which on the two occasions in question they did (although thankfully because they offered silly money for bands nowhere near that status in bigger venues they lost money through having to charge extortionate ticket prices in order to recoup the outlay, which makes it slightly amusing).
I don't understand domgourlay's point
Venue owners provide the venue, bands provide the music. Promoters exist to facillitate bands acquiring gigs at the venues. In the music business, promoters are one of those necessary go-betweens who, in an ideal world, would not be necessary. Competition between promoters is of no significance at all to music fans nor to the bands. When promoters go beyond their desire to bring live music to a town and start to believe their own feelings of self-importance then they become a hindrance to both bands and music fans.
...
well said
The point is
that being self-sufficient independent promoters as we are, it would be nice to be able to put on 12 shows a year, which is basically all we do, without having to employ a cloak-and-dagger policy of keeping our bills a secret until a few weeks beforehand knowing that if word gets out too early certain people will make every effort to steal our show.
We don't put bands on to make money JD, or try and compete with anyone. Unfortunately not everyone in Nottingham has the same level of integrity as us.
I appreciate that this makes no difference to bands or punters. 2 years ago it made no difference to me, but unfortunately now we're on the other side of the fence as it were, it's hard not to see people in a different light.
But
It isn't "your show", it's the bands' show. From the bands perspective, a gig is a gig, some are better than others, but who is promoting is not their main concern. For gig goers, some venues are better than others but the identity of the promoter is almost irrelvent. If your aim is to bring good music to your town then what difference does it make if it is at a gig you have organsied or at a gig that someone else is putting on? Especially as you say there is no financial gain.
Because
when you've gone to the trouble and expense of organising and promoting the show, the last thing you want is that show to be usurped by the fact the same band are playing at another venue a fortnight earlier therefore making your efforts worthless.
But
The people who attend such an earlier gig, who may not previously have been aware of the band, then hear them, like them and wonder when they are next playing, and see that they are at a gig you have organised, and, thus, the auidience is larger for that gig than it would have been? That is, gigs promote each other.
or they may think
"shall we go to this gig tonight? nah, we saw them 2 weeks ago."
double-edged sword, and all that.
Well
If they feel that way then the band wasn't good enough for them.
If a promoter books very very good bands then the scenario you describe shouldn't occur.
that's rubbish.
if a band of small size plays two shows in the same city and only one of them is populated it can mean that they wont get considered by other promoters for future shows. It has a direct impact on a band as many bands i know will attest to. Its the responsibilty of all concened to use their brains and act in the interests of everyone. Also the identity of a promoter is very important in some cases, if you havent heard of bands on a bill, occasionally you trust the promoters taste.
^^
to JD.
Promoter's taste
I understand your point, but, now, every band has a myspace and so all can be listened to before going to a gig, and so a gig goer can rely on her or his ears..
At the end of the day JD
I know independent promoters in Stoke, Leicester and Sheffield and the "scene" there isn't like it is here. There is an unofficial rule of thumb -call it a gentleman's agreement if you like - whereby if a promoter books a band they actually let the other promoters know straight away so as bookings aren't duplicated and people's toes don't get trodden on.
Also, if two venues do book the same band and cannot cancel for whatever reason then the second show is not publicised until after the first show.
My Experience
After only a meagre three years in this city and two of them promoting event for High Society I can honestly say we have never had any problems at all. All other promoters and venues have been lovely to us and we hope we have been lovely to them in return. We are more than happy to allow people to blaze up our message boards, and they do on a regular basis.
If a band is double booked, frankly, so what? It doesn't seem like a big deal to me. If the band are good, which if you are promoting them they should be, be woop - the punters will get to see them again soon. The key to a popular show is a) timing and b) promotion and c) promotion. Seriously, those final two are so important. Damn you do it well by having sexy posters and having a fan base (if you will) who know they always put on good stuff.
Has it happened to you?
The double booking I mean. If it had I don't think you'd be quite as passive about it.
No
But I really don't think I would be hugely angry, certainly not enough to post at such length about it, just mildly annoyed.
..
One promoter in Birmingham has a 14 day rule - the others don't seem to bother. It is not uncommon for bands to play two or more gigs in Birmingham close to oneanother, and the lcoal bands try to get as many gigs as they can.
i know of at least three promoters with this rule
the bands ignore it, frankly.
...
we don't have any rules about when bands can play - it's up to them frankly. all our shows are non-profit so at worst the bands are only doing themselves out of money and perhaps putting us off booking them again...
and I agree with JD about "promoter's taste" (or reputation) being largely irrelevant in these myspace ruled days. MAYBE, just maybe, 20 or 30 people who have been to our shows before and know us will make more of an effort to check out the band's myspace pages than if they were just playing at a venue, but at the end of the day if they don't like what they hear the fact that fact fans are putting the show on wont matter one little bit. If they don't like the bands, then they wont come.
and yeah, double booking has happened to me a lot. so what i did was made sure the OTHER bands playing on my bill were better than the bands playing on the other bill. and then it didn't matter.
incorrect
Promoters in this sense exist to bring music to people that no one else wants to put on because they love it and believe in it. The venue is just that, a room to put a show on in. Promoters in the purest sense of the word are necessary, it's venues that book in-house that are not.
I have also never had a band I have booked play elsewhere in the same city close to the gig I have booked. Perhaps book less shitty bands who'll sell their own gran for a gig and want to be famous?
"Promoters in the purest sense are necessary,
its venues that book inhouse that are not"
Fully agree. This is where a lot of the problems stem from.
dom's right
the nottingham scene is far too cliquey. come to leicester instead.
find us at
www.myspace.com/pineapstercommunion and if you're any good we'll give you a slot somewhere. be quick, we're starting to figure out the dates for next year.
Nottingham is also
gun captial of the UK.
Come Leicester!, we have two universities, two great sport teams (meh!), two cinemas, a city centre being done up and loads of other stuff. Also, proud home to the world's best festival.
Adblack, hows the Summer Sundae pre-stuff going on or does it currently lie in hiatus doing the winter months.
Well let's prove Nottingham's not cliquey
and come to VanishingVillages and Good name for a racehorse gig tomorrow night at bunkers! Jack Lewis, Noah and the Whale, Felix and Chris Maher. 7-10.30..
Yes this is a shamless plug...
www.myspace.com/VanishingVillages
Of course you'll be there anyway mister blindjoedeath...
Don't you make crisps as well?
Not forgetting that!
summer sundae
we had a meeting last week funnily enough. there will be a summer sundae fringe festival this year. on the thursday night preceeding the festival (ie the night before it starts).
THIS IS THE CURRENT PLAN AND SUBJECT TBC (comments welcome)
there will be a series of gigs parallel to the main stages, so there will be
1, a musician stage at the musician pub
2, a rising stage at the charlotte
3, a comedy stage (somewhere in a city centre venue)
4, an indoor stage at firebug, run by us (pineapster) as per our warm up gig this year.
you wont get into the gigs without a summer sundae fringe festival wristband. wristbands will be free (hopefully, subject to funding), but limited in number. and only available from DMH.
this is'nt certain yet. but this is our current plan. we're also adding in some guest stuff at each gig, perhaps some guest appearances, and a week of gigs around the city in the build up to the festival.
thoughts?
..
i dont know about cliquey
i do agree with the fact that a lot of promoters, such as Damn You! have an insular fanbase, but i wouldnt call it a clique. they have obviously just taken the time to build up a large group of contacts and a reputation. good on them.
however there does seem to be a problem promoting music just for the MUSIC. a lot of people wont turn up for a gig just because they have been put on by a different promoter. ill refer to the example of Immune/26feet. goodnameforaracehorse put them on a couple weeks ago to a depressingly small audience, while we put them on a few months back to a much larger one.
similarly i was told that our turnout for The Telescopes gig we put on was much smaller, and that much of the crowd that would see them at a Damn You! show like the one they did on a sunday a while back. as I feel the promotion for our gigs is pretty strong its obvious that a lot of people are only going to a gig because of the promoters.
i dont think this is a bad thing, its just misleading as to which bands have actual interest and which have just been lucky to get on a particular bill. not that pulling a crowd is a requisite to getting on one of the DiS shows, but we need to be sure that a headliner wont cost us £100s.
but all this backbiting and arguing is pretty pointless, you cant really hold a grudge because another promoter has a market who will go to there gigs independent of who is on. id gladly help out other promoters as a fan of a band or with helping promotion. i offered damn you as a promoter in the original reply to this post, and have contacted them about bands that have contacted me that i dont feel would get a good turnout at one of our gigs, but would get over a hundred people at one of theirs.
i think when it comes down to it theres just too many chiefs and not enough indians when it comes to putting on music in nottingham, but whatever the case arguements about cliques wont help anything
hi
we're happy as we are, we aren't moaning. let's just leave it at that.
Chris/DY
and
you know my reason for not being at an aforementioned show you put on. It's pretty watertight.
i think Domgourlay has a valid point...
i have never been to nottingham or whatever the place is...
but i understand what he is saying...
and i understand if other promotors might get upset but keep in mind he isn't blaming you as the sole cause... managers etc etc all play a part of this problem....
i think perhaps we can all agree that there could be a better understanding between everyone...
I always thought the real problem
in Nottingham is that the company that owns Rock City, Rescue Rooms, The Social, etc (can't remember it's name -the one owned by the gangster family) has monopolised everything a bit? Or am I living in the past.
yeh thats true
but even outside of it theres so much going on.
for example, late september early october i was told a gig i was organising for november the 18th featuring Damo Suzuki had been double booked. i tried 13 venues, all were full. yeh its good to have options but it comes to a point were promoters are colliding with each other and causing rifts almost daily. too many chiefs, not enough indians for sure.
No way
Its no ones god-given right to put on music. The reason there are ANY small, non-full-time venues to host music in the city is because either us lot or the people who did it before us hunted them out and chatted up lanlords/ladys about hosting music events. Its a perennial problem in Nottm that venues for the type of thing we do change or have new regulations forced upon them such as bunkers and the new closing time upstairs.
If you tried 13 venues for Damo, then try 14 and 15 and 16. I know you probably wouldn't get anywhere from experience of doing this but sometimes you have to bust a nut.
For example - back in late 04 we did Lightning Bolt. They pulled out through sickness and we had to reschedule at 3 days notice and find a room to hold 300 people and it took a lot of compromise and begging to do it. we ddn't just ring up the next venue and go "oh, yah, pencil us in yeah?". There was literally nowhere to do this. we had the rock city folks saying we could do it there but we didn't want to and we ended up doing one of the first 'proper' gigs at the Trent Uni building in about 10 years and it nearly killed us.
I'm not saying "ooooh, look at what we did" I'm saying if you want stuff to happen you have to work so hard to do it and for no reward.
and marlowx - managers never enter the equation for me, you're dealing with twat bands if they do.
huh
bands with managers are twats?
honestly mate
i worked both nuts to try and get that show on! i know dave tried his best to help too and tried two other venues. i even tried two in mansfield!
but i dont know where you got that 'god given right thing' from. what i was saying is for most promoters, less so you guys i guess, is that theres so many venues and promoters in the city that its not unusual for people interested in your gig to want to see other gigs as well, so both promoters are losing atendees/money and sometimes holding grudges because of it.
all i am saying is that having so much choice can have its good parts and bad parts. im not really bitter towards any promoter, but then i have no reason to be.
i dont actually :S
i didnt have anything to do with either of the above gigs (6x7 or immune/26feet) due to work commitments. and i wasnt trying to moan at anyone for not coming to our gigs, i wouldnt have enough time :)
Jordan*
(The Telescopes)
not 6x7
Right
let's just get a few things straight here.
First of all, I'm not moaning at people who don't come to our gigs. We don't need to, as most of em sell out anyway.
My point is that there is little or no support between different promoters and venues in the city, and there have been cases where others have done their best to sabotage our - and other people's - nights in the name of "competition".
As for the comment from BJD that "to deal with a manager is to deal with a twat band", I agree to some extent - hence the reason why we wholeheartedly refuse to deal with agents - but unfortunately, as with football, nearly every band I've ever met whether that be as a reviewer, promoter or punter, even most unsigned ones, has some kind of manager or mentor "looking after their interests" as it were, so the initial point isn't really valid.
Fact Fan, I admire your resilience to ensure the bands playing on your bill were better than someone else's if an event was double booked. However, you seem to have missed the point. My bills have already been booked and advertised - theirs have been booked on the strength of mine - so therefore cannot be changed at the last minute.
...
well if your gigs are selling out despite the competiton and perceived slight (through non-attendance by other promoters), then what's the worry?
[Incidentally the godfathers of Bristol DIY promoting are the CHOKE peeps and they NEVER come to gigs...]
also, if you've booked your bills far in advance and already advertised promoted them (and they are good bills) then you've got a real headstart over other promoters that might double book one of "your" bands - it'll be up to the other promoters to make up the ground on you, not the other way around.
anyway a bit of competition is a good thing, n'est pas? stops people from getting complacent and keeps them thinking of new ways to improve their nights/publicity and on the look out for exciting new acts...
...
oh yeah and not all managers/agents are twats. sometimes they are, sometimes they are total god sends who make life much, much easier. (especially if the bands, while being lovely people and brilliant entertainers, couldn't organise a trouser stain in a strip club)
It is also true that
some promoters, wrongly, will only deal with bands outside of town if they do have an agent, an agent that the promoter knows or has heard of.
It makes me laugh
though when bands demand you speak to their agent (names withheld!) when you're trying to book them for a gig, particularly as 12 months prior to that when they were unsigned they were harassing you constantly via email and myspace to review their demo!
...
agreed - that's wankerly behaviour
I don't consider
a self-funded, DIY collective that puts on 12 shows a year as being competition for anyone, do you?
We don't do this to compete, or be the best, or the coolest - we do it because we enjoy putting bands on that prior to us taking an interest wouldn't have got a show in this city!
hehe.
if thats us, then, we dont do it to compete with anyone, or be the best (as fell city girl would point out), or the coolest either. apologies dom, i can see where people might get that from my previous post.
we run pineapster because if we did'nt, no-one would take any notice of the leicester music scene, and frankly they bloody well should.
we would like to point out, we think dom gourlay is in fact a lovely chap, and he does put on super drowned in sound gigs in nottingham (i've been to one, and got very drunk - blame that pesky martin collins from lo ego and jon LED). and he and dis are not up its own arse in the slightest.
we do realise some people struggle to get gigs in nottingham, we're only down the road. and you might get a good gig with us, if you cant crack nottingham. its not a promise, but you never know. we're not in it for the money after all.
and
i just realise dom might be talking about himself as the collective. not us.....in which case. he does stuff for the same reason we do.
Sorry Andy!
My latest post was a response to Fact Fan not you guys.
I know you put on some wicked shows and aren't in it for the quick buck or to put other people out of business.
...
well exactly, that's my point surely?
if you are putting on shows for simply to put on music you love (which gets my thumbs up and support every time) then why should you care about competition.... you should just do what you do and not care about what other people are doing/think of you
Proper
gud fightin ere.
Yeah
you're right but it is disillusioning at times.
Sorry Dom
I think I actually misread yours, and presumed as usual i'd managed to upset someone without realising.
we have the same issues as dom to a certain extent. people take us less seriously because we arent profit orientated promoters, rather out to get exposure for the bands we put on, and hopefully have a good night out in the process.
you have to care about competition to a certain extent, or venue managers wont let you use their venue, if someone else can make them more money / bring them more drinkers. thats the biggest problem i guess. and some people dont get the concept of a good night out, bands just want whoever pays them the most cash, which definitley isnt us.......
agents
Most agents I know are great folks, they book tours for bands mainly from the USA as they're better placed to do so.
Most bands I know don't have managers. I think we deal in different circles.
You're probably
right in that we book different bands, although 99% of signed British bands now have agents, unfortunately, and they aren't particularly great folks, just parasitic, money grabbers - from personal experience, anyhow.
...
again I beg to differ. sorry to nit-pick, but it's a truism of the music industry that it's harder to get an agent than it is to get a record deal.
I've had 11 requests from signed bands -some with more than one album out - to act as their agent this year (I'm not actually an agent - I do DIY, non-profit one-off tours, which is a very different thing) which just goes to show how desperate some bands are to get an agent!! ;-) But it also goes someway to explain why bands insist on you running everything through their agent - once they've got one they'll do everything in their power to avoid pissing them off and losing them!!
Yeah
but they don't refer you to an agent when they want their fucking demo reviewed!
Maybe we should get agents too and make bands go through them!
...
good idea!!!
We've always
found playing in Notingham very, very difficult. To be honest, we just dont really bother anymore. "I'm Not From London" have started to put on really good nights though.
Its
not that bad, crikey. Theres some great shows and great promoters. Admittedly its best to get to "know" the people who are putting on the gigs... I guess the trouble is that there are so SO many bands out there its difficult to pull the wheat from the chaff (or insert your own cliche)
Damn You, Audio Massage, Not From London are all doing great shows away from the huge conglomorate that is the RescueRooms/RockCity/Social
....
100!
horray.
this
is one of the most interesting threads i've read on dis...
yes
It has been informative and educational. (I exclude my contributions from that description.)
totally disagree
the number of promoters in nottingham at the moment is amazing. i might not like everything that is put on, but it is fantastic that people are prepared to get off their arses and organise nights themselves. i could real off over 15 independent promoters - how many other cities can say that?
a few years ago, before the rescue rooms opened, the only DIY promoters i knew of were 593 collective and nightwithnoname, along with the monthly Why Can't We Just All Get Along? nights (that could partly be due to my own ignorance of other promoters though!). We started a free gig listings booklet of the same name, ripping off Cops & Robbers in Leeds, but really struggled to fill it with more than 10 gigs. If I had the time I'd love to start the listings booklet again, or set up an all inclusive Nottingham DIY promoters website. but i'm spread to thin already... if anyone else wants to take up the baton i would gladly assist.
I've never seen DiS people at one of our gigs giving flyers out (but i did miss comets on fire, which i know you were at). DIY promoters are always more than welcome to come to our gigs and give out flyers, put up posters. if you can't stick around for the gig you can still leave them with me on the door. Honestly one of the best ways to get people to come along to gigs, especially slightly riskier ones, is to give flyers out to gig goers, talk to them, sweet talk them if you have to, make friends! when it pisses down with rain on the night of your gig and those 30 people turn up it really bloody helps. and it is fun to see those friendly faces!
obviously if you don't think it is worth flyering our gigs, then that is up to you. i haven't been to any of yours, mainly because i don't like the bands you put on all that much.
it seems your beef is more with venues that book in-house. i can only suggest not dealing with the agents / bands that fuck you about like that. they are obviously not worth your time.