Drowned in Sound - Community - Music forum

Re: Trout Mask Replica

Not sure I entirely agree with your last paragraph, but it is brilliant :)

There's so much melody, so much emotion in it. You just have to listen a little harder to find it. Literally every bar has five different tunes going on that most bands would use to make an entire album. And his vocals are just incredible.

Smileadelic | 12 Apr '05, 21:44 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

Next you will be saying that Frank Zappa held popular music in the highest esteem

prole-art-threat | 12 Apr '05, 21:46 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

man I had a horrible experience at a house party a while back. I was going through the record collection and found some sort of Beefheart compilation Cd. I told the person that I really loved Captain beefheart and they responded similarly. I was quite encouraged, especially as I thought the person was a bit of an art school prick to begin with. I then said I felt Trout Mask replica was an incredible piece of music. Not only did he not know what I was talking about, but his friend said "Dont worry, its a bit shit".

I think it was around the time the world was starting to destroy my spirit.

bigmanwithagun | 12 Apr '05, 21:49 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

oh dear god.

it's very hard to listen to as it's all very random, but damn if Big Joan isn't the funnest record ever.

impossible to dance to mind.

i-deserve-to-be-in-your-band | 12 Apr '05, 21:56 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

I've had it for ages but I still find it hard listening. I appreciate the uniqueness and the soul but it's still difficult for me to enjoy it. Still i'm sure it'll click eventually.

Will stick it on now actually. This board is great for reminding me to listen to cds again. The Shins and the Pixies were great to hear again last week.

mug_mug_mug | 12 Apr '05, 23:08 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

Twisted genius. One of those rare records that drops you off in someone elses crazy little world then locks the door behind you. Moonlight in Vermont is a damn fine pop song too!

thewarn | 13 Apr '05, 08:56 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

As someone who, I'm sure it appeared to you, cast doubts upon the genius of trout mask replica, I have to defend myself from your ludicrous ramblings.

Firstly, as a starting point for Beefheart, for someone who has never heard his music, safe as milk IS clearly the way to go. Enough craziness to get the feel of the man, but enough garagey pop wonderfulness that you are drawn into the whole package.

To claim that anyone who doesn't like trout mask replica might as well have their ears removed is just ridiculous.

Here's some news for you, JohnDTraynor. Some people like to listen to music to be entertained, not to gain approval for their wilfully intellectual and unlistenable ghettoised musical choices. I mean....well done for liking stockhausen, really (sniggers), you're a very clever man.

As it happens, I kinda like tmr, but I'd fight anyone to the death who was so far up their own asshole that they think you HAVE to like it to appreciate music. It's okay, some of it is pretty unlistenable to the uninitiated (which is why I suggest safe as milk first), and whatever I may think of it, I have to be pretty pissed/bored to put it on.

Anyway, clearly YOU know why music exists, not as has previously been thought to entertain people, but to stroke their fucking beards and smirk at the fucking irony behind the bloody metaphor of John Fucking Cage dragging a compass over a piano. Well Done, Very clever.

grockle | 13 Apr '05, 10:07 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

I didn't 'get' TMR til I 'got' free-jazz. Then I went back to it, and it's been enriching my life ever since. A staggering work of genius.

Lester Bangs once wrote that there were onjly 10,000 pairs of ears on the planet capable of appreciating it. Well, I'm priveleged to have one of those pairs.

dave_rio | 13 Apr '05, 15:21 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

Thanks Grockle, you saved me the effort of saying all that.

Honestly JohnDTraynor's original post was off the pretentiousness-o-meter scale.

Darcy | 13 Apr '05, 15:45 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

Darcy, fuck off and read the NME.

JohnDTraynor | 13 Apr '05, 16:57 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

You self-important cunt.

I'm not sure anyone who posts on this forum is worthy of your shining pearls of wisdom, so surely you are wasting your time here?

The smugness that permeates everyone of your posts is fucking shocking. Seriously, re-read them and realise you are a sad little man masturbating your ego by trying to talk down to a bunch of people half your age...

ah forget it. I'll ignore your posts, you ignore mine etc.

Darcy | 13 Apr '05, 17:20 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

"Some people like to listen to music to be entertained, not to gain approval for their wilfully intellectual and unlistenable ghettoised musical choices"

If you don't like it that's up to you, but you chose to reply by inventing a view I had never expressed. This is a modern characteristic.

You then drone on about a view I have never heard anyone express. You seem to defending yourself against an attack that hasn't happened by just being offensive.

It's all in your mind. I like what I like and chose to write enthusiastically about it. He just reiterated lots of tired old cliches about musical tastes that no-one has ever said.

JohnDTraynor | 13 Apr '05, 16:55 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

Yes yes yes, but I can smell your type a mile off oh pretentious one.

Don't come on here spouting shit about people who don't like Beefhearts most unlistenable album being unworthy and expect to get away with it, especially when you were inspired by totally missing the point of my post over on that other thread.

You are so utterly blinded by the shitstorm flying over there in the avant garde ghetto that you couldn't even take the point that I made- that tmr wouldn't be the best place for a Beefheart newbie to start, without going off on a ridiculous snobby rant about how superior enjoying that earbleeding racket makes your musical opinion.

My point remains valid, and like I said....I think it's an okay record, but It really gets my goat that you felt the need to start a self congratulating thread to defend it, especially when no one was attacking it.

grockle | 13 Apr '05, 17:05 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

You are smelling something that isn't there. Read what you see and then reply. I really enjoy the aforesaid LP so I was entusiastic about as a music lover. You want to take part in a debate that has no interest to me.

JohnDTraynor | 13 Apr '05, 17:19 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

go away then.

grockle | 13 Apr '05, 17:27 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

This is the best thread I've ever read!

smilingcrazylady | 14 Apr '05, 00:13 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

Indeed !

lyle | 14 Apr '05, 07:39 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

I once went on a forum where you could rate users. It was the single most idiotic function I've ever seen on any forum, but if it were in place here I'd give Mr Traynor 5/5. Well said (repeatedly), sir.

dave_rio | 14 Apr '05, 12:58 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

Love that album.

incompetentoli | 14 Apr '05, 13:46 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

The only valid excuse for denouncing something as 'unlistenable' is if said listener happens to be regrettably stone deaf.

This thread is funny. ('ha-ha' not 'oo-err'.)

carrot_ram | 14 Apr '05, 14:55 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

METAL MACHINE MUSIC! ;)

i-deserve-to-be-in-your-band | 14 Apr '05, 15:07 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

nah, it says in the dictionary that unlistenable means

' Being such that listening with comfort or pleasure is impossible:eg: an unlistenable operatic solo; an unlistenable diatribe.'

grockle | 14 Apr '05, 15:12 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

METAL MACHINE MUSIC! ;)

i-deserve-to-be-in-your-band | 14 Apr '05, 15:13 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

"Metal Machine Music"... there's one album where the conventional wisdom holds true ;)

Smileadelic | 14 Apr '05, 18:54 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

"Those who do not like it do not know what music is nor why it exists."

Oh great, someome else passing off their opinion as fact. That could be irony of course, in which case accept my apologies.

Haven't heard Trout Mask Replica but I take it it's one of those albums like Bitches Brew that people pretend to like so they can look down on those who don't 'get it'?

JohnM | 14 Apr '05, 21:18 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

ok, so now you can look down on the people who look down on those that don't 'get it.' which makes you king. I like Bitches Brew; music can be enjoyed in a large variety of ways. It also makes me look cool.

iamnotahumanbeing | 14 Apr '05, 23:47 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

Are you accusing me of inverted snobbery? I'll have you know I pretend to like Can on a regular basis.

JohnM | 15 Apr '05, 09:59 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

It does have it's great moments, but is pretty hard going. I've heard that Beefheart sang his vocals in a different room from the band, not wearing headphones, thus only being able to hear a tiny amount of what they were playing, rendering him barely in sync with the backing tracks........I mean, it's full of good ideas, but in my opinion, as an album, from start to finish...well, I wouldn't jump with joy if someone put it on at a party.

grockle | 15 Apr '05, 11:19 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

TMR does contain "Orange Claw Hammer," which is without doubt my favourite Beefheart song.
It is just the way his voice hangs in the air, the way it all just spills out of him, the imagery, the raw beauty, the, the...

*gets carried away and has to go for a lie down*.

Durutti | 15 Apr '05, 11:28 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

*SCL hijacks thread for own use*

When and where's your next gig durutti? H&A???

smilingcrazylady | 15 Apr '05, 11:30 | Send note | Report this | Reply

it's full of

ideas granted, not necessarily good ones.

thegoldenbonce | 1 May '08, 13:22 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

"Haven't heard Trout Mask Replica but I take it it's one of those albums like Bitches Brew that people pretend to like so they can look down on those who don't 'get it'?"

There may be some idiots who think the way you describe. Do you know lots of pretentious idiots?

I don't care who else "gets it" or not. I like it.

Very few people on this board seem to understand humour.

JohnDTraynor | 16 Apr '05, 02:04 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

You obviously cared enough that people didn't 'get it' to start a thread about it.

Of course I can believe that you like the album and are not just pretending to like it, but if you were not being ironic with your 'might as well have their ears removed' and 'Those who do not like it do not know what music is nor why it exists' comments then I find them ridiculous a few others in this thread.

JohnM | 16 Apr '05, 02:16 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

I heard this for the first time the other week and I loved every second of it. Like music, but if someone kicked it to pieces and put it all back together in the wrong order. Inspired rule breaking.

John_Brainlove | 15 Apr '05, 11:20 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

Great anecdotes about it being made too. Like Beefheart kept the band virtual prisoners in the backwoods and made them all actually wear masks and act in character while recording.

Yes, SCL, thanks for asking. ;) Bomb Factory play the Hope & Anchor in Islington on April 25th. We are on at 8.30pm. www.bomb-factory.co.uk - you love it!

Durutti | 15 Apr '05, 11:34 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

I like how a lot of time Mr Beefheart doesn't even sound like he can hear the rest of the band when he's singing.

Also if you just listen to each song through one speaker they can take on a totally different character. It's like three songs for the price of one.

mug_mug_mug | 15 Apr '05, 15:51 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

I can't bring myself to listen to it the whole way through. Beefheart scares me - he sounds so unhinged.

Wiggles | 15 Apr '05, 11:40 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

He is! That's why its so fucking great. He's on the fucking edge, screaming into the abyss. He was quite a good painter too.

Durutti | 15 Apr '05, 11:42 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

Will find this album now, just to see what all the fuss is about.. I'm fairly impatient with more inaccessable albums tho, blueberry boat just bored me after about 5 listens and I gave up. This album sounds more exciting tho.

Am gonna come and check out your skills on the 25th Durutti ;)

smilingcrazylady | 15 Apr '05, 11:51 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

Cool! This is cooler though:

Uh thick cloud caught uh piper clubs tail
The match struck blue on uh railroad rail
The old puff horse was just pullin' thru
'n uh man wore uh peg leg forever
I'm on the bum where the hoboes run
The air breaks with filthy chatter
Oh I don't care there's no place there
I don't think it matters
My skin's blazin' thru
'n my clothes in tatters
'n the railroad looked
Like uh "Y" up the hill of ladders
Ohe shoe fell on the gravel
One stick poked down
Gray of age fell down on uh pair of ears
An eagle shined thru my hole watch pocket
Uh gingham girl baby girl
Passed me by in tears
Uh jack rabbit raised his folded ears
Uh beautiful sagebrush jack rabbit
'n an oriole sang like an orange
His breast full uh worms
'n his tail clawed the evenin' like uh hammer
His wings took t' air like uh bomber
'n my rain can caught me uh cup uh water
When I got into town
Odd jobs mam ah yer horse I'll fodder
I'm the round house man
I once was yer father
Uh little up the road uh wooden
Candy stripe barber pole
'n above it read uh sign "painless parker"
Lic-licorice twisted around under uh fly
'n uh youngster cocked 'er eye
God before me if I'm not crazy
Is my daughter
Come little one with yer little dimpled fingers
Gimme one 'n I'll buy you uh cherry phosphate
Take you down t' the foamin' brine 'n water
'n show you the wooden tits
On the Goddess with the pole out s'full sail
That tempted away yer peg legged father
I was shanghied by uh high hat beaver moustache man
'n his pirate friend
I woke up in vomit 'n beer in uh banana bin
'n uh soft lass with brown skin
Bore me seven babies with snappin' black eyes
'n beautiful ebony skin
'n here it is I'm with you my daughter
Thirty years away can make uh seaman's eyes
Uh round house man's eyes flow out water
Salt water

Durutti | 15 Apr '05, 12:05 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

i just can't like Trout Mask Replica. i've tried, kinda, but as yet it's not something i'd listen to for pleasure. the lyrics are fabulous, Ella Guru is great, bits of it make me laugh, but the 'highest point of achievement in rock music'? nah. i listen to a lot of what could be described by some as similarly esoteric, obscure/ out-there stuff but Trout Mask has always left me cold. however, i've come round to other albums after long periods of distaste, so i'll probably still chip away at it occasionally.

but whatever way you slice it, JohnDTraylor, you are what is known as a music snob. save us from people like you and your stultifying view of music as a conduit for own pre-supposed superiority.

Zoo1 | 15 Apr '05, 13:38 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

Everyone considers their music taste to be better than someone else's. Especially on this site! So to call someone a music snob is just plain hypocritical. By calling someone a music snob, it means you consider yourself to be above them in some ways (i.e. having a more universal music taste), and therefore is a flawed statement to begin.

iamnotahumanbeing | 15 Apr '05, 15:40 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

what the fuck? your assumptions are flawed. i don't consider my taste to be 'better' than anyone elses- as my above post may have suggested, i actually find the whole notion absurd. me calling him a snob makes no comment on anyones superiority aside from the allusions he makes to his own. nice try though.

Zoo1 | 15 Apr '05, 23:53 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

So you prefer other people's tastes to your own? Hmmm. I wasn't calling you a music snob, as i too find the whole notion absurd. Again: “By calling someone a music snob, it means you consider yourself to be above them in some ways (i.e. having a more universal music taste), and therefore is a flawed statement to begin.” – So calling someone a music snob is just another type of superiority, putting the accused below you. This was my original argument.

iamnotahumanbeing | 16 Apr '05, 00:30 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

i know. but i don't think me calling someone a snob means i believe myself superior, just that i get pissed off when people belittle others for not sharing their opinion of such a personal, relative subject. i see the argument you are trying to make, it's interesting, but i don't think it really holds together in this case. see i really don't care about MY having or not having better taste than other people (it's possible i used to once but years of arguing on the internet with retards knocked it out of me ;) ). but i do find such a 'you don't REALLY get music' attitude deplorable. it violates the principles (if you will) that make music mean so much to me. i love the fact that other people have different taste. it gives me a kind of faith that i am not the only human being in the world. he doesn't love that. he uses it as an excuse to hate people. that's what the nazis used to do! you could indeed say that the principle of ultimate subjectivity in music was my religion. my faith. and when i see my faith desecrated by such heathen shennanigans, i get angry. very angry. angry on the internet. and thus i post a mighty message of such fury that it destroys musical bigotry. am i Superman? i can see why you think that, but no- i am just a common servant of the good lord Music. like doctor who. but on an indie messageboard.

Zoo1 | 16 Apr '05, 21:17 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

ok lol i getcha. However i don't think the comparison to nazism is quite fair - I think he's just an opinionated music fan! I perceived the original post to be mostly ironic, but if it wasn't then your anger is entirely justified. I spose only the man himself knows...

iamnotahumanbeing | 16 Apr '05, 21:32 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

It was only an opinion that was originally expressed by JohnD, I dont seriously think that he was going to cut off the ears of people who haven't heard of/heard tmr.

Pet Sounds remains the highest point of achievement of rock/pop music anyway!

iamnotahumanbeing | 15 Apr '05, 15:46 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

My favourite story is the one where Van Vliet instructed everyone to 'play a strawberry'. Midway through the ensuing jam he halted proceedings, asserting that the drummer was not successfully playing a strawberry. He proceeded to throw said drummer down a flight of stairs, after which the poor guy left the band for a few years. Fook!

I disagree massively about Pet Sounds, but then I'm one of those ignorant fucks who also thinks The Beatles are shit apart from Sgt. P.

carrot_ram | 15 Apr '05, 21:32 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

'The Beatles are shit apart from Sgt.P.'!!! There's nonsense, there's crap and then there's sheer unsolicited blasphemy. Please don't call yourself an 'ignorant fuck' - do something about it.

angel_eyes | 16 Apr '05, 04:02 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

I to disagree. Sgt P is shit as well.

monpot | 16 Apr '05, 04:05 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

oh come on the Beatles aren't shit, what about maxwell's silver hammer, yellow submarine, octopuses garden and all their other revolting childrens shitness

mollymauk | 16 Apr '05, 14:22 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

Why the massive disagreement? I think it's probably the best album i'm ever likely to hear.

iamnotahumanbeing | 16 Apr '05, 18:58 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

This is where being American, a stereotypical dumb American, has its advantages, namely I've not heard TMR. "Oh, well he's a yank. It's OK. Quite understandable, mm?"

I'd have picked up a Capt Beefheart record had I spotted one in the used bins cos mr cadd and others I respect have 'em rated highly; but my fear has been the Captain is Frank Zappa incarnate, another band only art students and marajuana smoking guitarists could love. I have no evidence that this is the case except that a band called Captain Beefheart really probably ought to sound like Frank Zappa.

BTW, thanks boys for the entertaining cat fight. :-) The king is dead, long live the king 'n all that.

oceanRain | 16 Apr '05, 02:25 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

Don is American, though I guess you know that. I know next to nothing about Frank Zappa, never been inclined to find out.

JohnDTraynor | 16 Apr '05, 14:39 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

Beefheart and Zappa are linked, grew up together, musical involvement, but that's were it ends. They both veer out away from each other. Both have some great albums and some stuff that if people chose as a first listen would probably turn them away from getting any more of their albums.

cadd | 16 Apr '05, 14:46 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

I've listened to the Beatles extensively. Apart from the aforementioned they just bore me. That's all.

I really need to tackle some chunks of Zappa back-catalogue. It's pretty daunting though!

carrot_ram | 16 Apr '05, 16:16 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

Don't make it sound so elitist! Its a concept album about rude fucking and it sounds amazing. Kids could enjoy TMR.
Clear Spot kicks its ass though.

blindjoedeath | 16 Apr '05, 17:32 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

I agree, Clear Spot is my favourite Beefheart album of all the ones I know. The way it jumps between different genres from garage to soul is great and often pretty funny. It deserves the attention of Safe As Milk... Someone showed me a relatively old documentary recently, with John Peel talking about Beefheart, and I vaguely recall him saying that SAM was part of the band's attempt to appear commercial; their take on a Rolling Stones-type sound.

I do like TMR, but it's definitely an album you need to be in the mood for. The 33 1/3 book on it is interesting, Greil Marcus' quote seems to sum up TMR nicely: "If you listen to it, you will find a world of voices speaking to you from all directions. You might feel both exhilarated, and completely lost."

thephotobooth | 1 May '08, 07:46 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

Trout mask replica is an awful album with no good melodies or arrangements and runs on captain Beefhearts reputation, it is not good in itself.

Psychedelia | 17 Apr '05, 13:10 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

"Trout mask replica is an awful album with no good melodies or arrangements and runs on captain Beefhearts reputation"

He got his reputation from that album!

JohnDTraynor | 17 Apr '05, 13:14 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

some of tmr is ace, some of it is self indulgent pretentious crap that you can only listen to after 3 tabs. and then it just scares the shit out of you

mattredcars | 17 Apr '05, 13:19 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

It's the old argument again: if you truly believe in the necessity of your creative act it can't really be pretentious, or no?

carrot_ram | 17 Apr '05, 13:55 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

This makes a nice change: A passionate post about music. Can we have more of this?

epicurus | 21 Apr '05, 17:24 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

*groan* Have you not realised yet that we know you are JohnDTraynor's new profile?

What a strange fellow you are.

Darcy | 21 Apr '05, 17:33 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

Rosa Luxemburg!

epicurus | 21 Apr '05, 17:37 | Send note | Report this | Reply

Re: Trout Mask Replica

What is this nonsense about TMR being some incredibly difficult piece of art that you can only appreciate sitting stroking your chin - absolute rot! Sure, some avant garde music is dull, but TMR is one of the most exciting, mindblowing records ever made. I hate this ingorant, timid assumption that it's jsut some weird crap people only pretend to like. Fuck off!
It fucking rocks and takes your brain, body and soul in a million different directions.
Beefheart may have grown up and worked with Zappa but they are really very different. Beefheart's music is just so much more vital and soulful, funny without being smirking or facetious, scary, wild and inspiring.
I like bits of Zappa, but the constant piss taking and juvenile humour grates and means I could never truly love him.
I too

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Trout Mask Replica