The Man City supporters' club has asked United to hold a minute's applause - rather than a minute's silence - to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Munich air disaster on Feb 10, when the derby is at Eastlands.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/7201817.stm
They fear some City fans will be unable to contain their glee. As a City fan, this depresses me a lot.
Does anyone else find the 'minute's applause' a bit disrespectful?
correction
it'll be at Old Trafford.
Not really
They've always done it in Italy. I prefer it to the minutes silence in all honesty...
A minute's applause should be
to celebrate someone's life (ie. someone who died naturally or in non-tragic circumstances).
Silence should be used for something like the anniversary of the Munich Air Disaster in my opinion.
If people can't respect the dead, or the fact that everyone else around them is respecting the dead, chuck them out of the ground.
...
Is it any more pathetic bearing in mind that there was actually a member of the City staff/team on that plane?
Yes
Frank Swift
I find a minute applause to say an individual
who had a great career, it's a great mark of respect.
A team robbed of its youth in a plane accident, it doesn't seem very fitting at all.
I find it appalling really. I mean I get as vociferous as the next fan, but at the end of the day, these are human being who kicked a ball and died in a senseless accident. If you can't take one minute to stop and contemplate it, you're an absolute scumbag.
^ this
I hate people who get all 'football fan' about stuff. Any City fan that makes any noise during the minute's silence should be chucked out of the stadium and banned from attending games.
Agreed mate
there's some things that are slightly more important than football in the grand scheme of things.
Saying that, if Spurs don't win tonight I will be crying outside in the rain :(
But there is a gigantic difference between that,
a very human reaction, and say, going around beating up Arsenal fans.
Not that beating up Arsenal fans would be hard, they're all pussies
Totally
football hooliganism/behaviour like Man City fans are 'threatening' is completely irrational and inexcusable.
er,
noone is "threatening" it, but members of our supporters' club are worried some might not respect it. A bit different no?
...
As soon as I've finished by grilled chicken and lettuce in foccacia loaf, I'm totally coming to kick your arse.
Is the grilled chicken and lettuce in foccacia loaf
your signature finishing move?
...
Nah, it's my lunch. My finishing move is deeply traditional: Kick in the nuts + Shoryuken.
Then I turn to an imaginary camera and make a peace sign.
Breaking the fourth wall
and STARWIPE....
you can't enforce
someone to respect the silence
If they don't want to respect the silence
they can not go to the game. Simple.
But do you not think that they should?
they should ask people
to respect it and that's about it. If the fans are decent they'll self govern themselves by having a go at any other fellow fan who takes the piss.
agreed
the first time i think i heard it in Britain was when that little boy who was an Everton fan was murdered a while back. Since then seems to have been applause all the way.
...its been around for a couple of seasons now...
Alan Ball got an applause...
I can see why it happens - it removes the platform for the boo-boys. I guess it's a shame that there's actually a chance of folk booing.
That Everton lad's fmaily coming on to the pitch at Anfield was pretty moving...
that's horrific :(
Difficult one.
As much as I like the idea of celebrating someones life rather than mourning their death...I want people crying at my funeral/memorial.
I've just realised
that post makes me look like a bit of a cunt.
i think either is fitting.
when john peel got carried out of his funeral to 'teenage kicks' and massive applause, i welled up. no other way would've been appropriate.
But that was one bloke
This was an aircraft full of people that the majority of the people in the stadium won't have seen play. I think it would be difficult to applaud someone I knew nothing about save grainy footage on MOTD and old newspaper cuttings.
oh, for sure.
much more difficult to sit in quiet contemplation over people you don't know the names of, though.
I kinda agree with you
But using that logic, why bother commemorating something you know nothing about (or indeed very, very few people in attendance at the match will know about) at all?
Respect, innit
That sounds very macho and ridiculous, but celebrating the traditions and lives of players who helped on the way to making any professional football club what it is today.
Maybe? I may not have seen Duncan Edwards play, but I know he's worthy of my minutes silence.
Fair enough
Applause could be seen as a sign of respect too though, is all I'm saying
It can be
But in the context, it's not especially fitting
I'd agree
But for the reason I've posted down there somewhere, I think it would practical
In this instance, I'd be inclined to ditch practicality
and just have the silence and people want to be cunts, let it be on their conscience
Sod that!
Some proper punishment would be due!
I remember years ago seeing Chelsea take Arsenal apart in the League Cup, and a Chelsea fan had his Arsenal supporting young daughter with him in her kit. Someone next to them said something about the 'little Arsenal bitch' and was promptly and aggressively dragged away by a group of Chelsea fans. No idea what happened to him.
(I know you hate Chelsea but I like this story)
Probably took him to the boozer to buy his drinks all night
:)
Given that QPR have recently gained some potential for upward mobility
I'll save a sarcastic QPR-related put down until a more appropriate time
I was talking more in terms of rewarding his loutish behaviour but on the subject
your fans are shit :)
Champions League in 4 years - Flavio said so
no it isn't
I know the names of maybe a dozen ordinary soldiers in the First World War, but thinking about them during two minutes' silence on Remembrance Sunday isn't difficult.
Not that the death of 23 young men is easily dismissed
I really don't think the two are comparable though
war heroes and footballers
can't be compared.
I'm not comparing them
just suggesting that this principle
"much more difficult to sit in quiet contemplation over people you don't know the names of, though"
is not correct.
over footballers*
then.
footballers are people too!! :)
Point taken, sort of, but Munich is quite a special case in Manchester.
See above
I'm still trying to formulate an argument though.
Disrespectful? No
Inappropriate? Perhaps.
I think the reasoning behind the suggestion they made is incredibly respectful. They've demonstrated a great degree of consideration for those involved in the accident, and aren't at all 'appluading' the crash.
I think its a reasonable request (it only takes one dickhead and then all City fans will be blamed), but Utd are well within their rights to say no.
true
maybe disrespectiful was the wrong word. i suppose it's more that I'm more comfortable with thinking about something like that internally in silence, rather than projecting it.
A minute's silence feels more powerful in that respect.
A lot of things are more important than football
A lot of football fans don't understand this.
It's a tough one
they say it's a tragedy for the whole of Manchester rather than just Utd. Man U fans sing songs about Hillsborough etc and I can imagine a few City voices being heard during the silence.
seriously when do united fans sing songs about hillsborough?
the one time i heard that happen was in a cup match against west brom for some reason and everyoone turned on this group of lads and told them to fuck themselves. A lot of this "so and so's fans sing about insert disaster here" is from pissheads in pubs who haven't been to a game for years and have not moved on from the 70s
I'm not saying it never happens
but the hugely vast majority of football fans are not utter cunts
I wasn't just sticking up for united fans either everyone knows how it is to be tarred with a certain brush because of a horrible, destructive element and i think most people take it upon themselves to stop it in this day and age
Maybe not Hillsborough
but they certainly still sing '...without killing anyone, we won it two times'.
But isn't that just a statement of fact?
:)
I suppose so. I might start singing it. Without killing anyone, I went to Somerfield...
You might have killed someone
in a Chaos theory kinda way without realising it
the small grocer, perhaps
poor little guy and his ailing vegetables.
most clubs
have fans who will sing songs that people might think inappropriate just to wind up other fans
They certainly sing about Marc Vivien Foe
I've witnessed it first hand.
I'm aware that im being a bit of a cunt with this
but who are the 'they' you are speaking of. Although I go to OT less now than i used to i really never hear these chants. The stewards at United are some of the strictest in the league, or of the grounds i've visited at least, and they really do crack down on it.
a minute's applause
isn't an appropriate way to commemorate the death of 23 people.
If City fans can't respect the minute's silence bearing in mind that a) one of their own (great) players died and b) there will certainly be intense media interest in their behaviour, then there's no hope for them.
And this is the problem
'City fans'; they asked for the applause so that the actions of a few morons wouldn't come to represent their fanbase as a whole.
all they need to do
is stay quiet for one minute, to respect the memory of one of their own if nothing else. It's not United's job to spare their blushes if they act up.
But collective responsibility
in situations like this is bullshit.
A few dickheads who yell during the silence will not be representative of either the club or the fans as a whole, yet loads of people will see things that way.
Of course Utd have the right to proceed as they want but it would be pretty stupid to label City fans as a whole
this is an opportunity for them to rise above
the Munich shite a sizeable minority of their support has revelled in over the years.
Even Bolton, who are particularly bitter towards United, managed to keep schtum ten years ago when asked to observe a minute's silence for the 40th anniversary. Everton were also impeccably behaved after Matt Busby's death.
I hope United fans don't bother shouting anyone disrespecting the silence down, because that really will ruin it.
True
but isn't that on a bit of a tangent to the point I'm making? Doesn't really relate to it...
sort of
but my point is, I understand why City made the suggestion, but a minute's applause was never going to happen.
A minute's applause is fine for celebrating the life of someone who's died recently (George Best had one, for example) but not appropriate for something that happened 50 years ago. A minute's silence is better, since it allows people a short while to think about the significance of the event and those who died.
We'll just have to wait and see what happens. If City do observe the silence then credit will be due.
I agree with that
especially as a City fan.
I meant noise_annoys
OK, the point I'm making
is that City fans are like any cross-section of the population; most aren't dickheads, but most aren't.
If even just one dickhead yells something, you'll all be branded as being dickheads. As a clearly quite conscientious and sensitive City fan, you mustn't want that either.
So I can understand where the suggestion came from, if not necessarily agreeing with it
*but some are
Point completely ruined
no, you put it well
I can also understand why the supporters' club is suggesting it, just find it a bit depressing that it's necessary they do.
Yup
I'm sure that the club will deal with anyone who does behave inappropriately though
I hope so
.
Maybe United should stop their fans chants about Hillsborough and Marc Vivien Foe...
...if they want opposition fans to respect their own tragic losses.
what do they sing about Foe?
This is true.
chanting of that nature is distasteful
but I doubt that fans sing Hillsborough and Foe songs actually during the respective minute's silences themselves.
I seem to remember that we had a minute's silence at Chelsea for the game against Leeds after Billy Bremner died. It was immaculately observed. Then the two teams came out and kicked the living shit out of each other, in a nil-nil match which had multiple sendings off.
The perfect tribute, some would say
'It's what they would have wanted'
This is true
but also quite a pathetic way of deflecting the blame.
How can I be deflecting blame
Nothing has happened yet!! The match isn't for another three weeks
It's not really about not singing songs to avoid offending other people
it's about not doing it so you can commemorate a waste of talented human life, regardless of who they played for or where they came from or anything else.
This is what'll happen -
1 drunk City fan will shout something and all the other shouts will be from City fans shouting 'shut up you tw@t'. It will be reported that Man C fans ruined the minute's silence.
It therefore seems sensible for Man C to request a mins applause, although it is not entirely appropriate 'tribute' for such a tragedy.
Interesting post from a Man City forum
The derby match on Feb 10th, as we now know, will be used by Manchester United to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the ****** air crash. This is because it is your nearest home game to the actual anniversary itself. There are some concerns that the proposed minute's silence will not be honoured by City fans and the overwhelming majority of us are horrified by that prospect. Most of us are decent people who love a bit of banter but know where to draw the line.
I know that the tragedy affected everyone in Manchester at the time and it was fairly common for fans to visit Old Trafford and Maine Road on consecutive weeks, regardless of their main allegiance. My grandfather was a red but often went to Maine Road. One of the fans who died was a great friend of my uncle's so it hit my family directly.
Those were different times and we all know that things have not changed wholly for the better in the world of football over the intervening 50 years.
However, even decent people like me (and the majority on here) are getting a bit fed up with the sanctimonious rubbish coming out of your club.
I sincerely hope we will respect the day but how have your club done that over the years? Let me give you a few examples.
Many of the players who died had club houses and their families were apparently turfed out of those houses after a decent interval. Johnny Berry survived the crash but was so badly affected that he didn't play again and was also thrown out of his club-owned house a year later. Jackie Blanchflower's daughter (he survived) summed up the feeling of the families when she supposedly said "Were the ones that died the ones that got away with it?"
In 1997, the survivors got together to formulate a plan to ask the club for some compensation, via a benefit game. This went ahead in August 1998 and each family got £47,000. Eric Cantona came over for the game and is believed to have charged over £90,000 travel and accomodation expenses for his entourage. So Cantona, presumably not a poor man, got TWICE as much out of it as each of the families.
The club charges people to see an exhibition which made nearly £2m in 2006 and supposedly none of the money goes to the families. They have sold a vast quantity of merchandise over the years and apparently not a single penny has gone to the families.
Ray Wood, the goalkeeper at the time of the disaster said "They received massive international support following the disaster. But they didn't treat people properly then, did nothing for us all