1. england fans are fucking moronic, booing after half an hour due to the lack of kick and rush football.
2. we kept possession much better tonight. the performance was more measured than we've seen in recent times, with a noticeable lack of long balls from the back. anyone expecting kick and rush premiership style football was incredibly naive; we played like an archetypal serie a side tonight.
3. the players were positionally very disciplined, which was pretty impressive.
4. graham taylor needs to shut the fucking fuck up about barry not being a holding midfielder. 6 months ago you were proclaiming mclaren as a genius for playing him in that role. he's not a holding player in the makalele mould but he's suited to holding his position and playing intelligent possession football.
5. i for one am happy with the performance. i'm sure many won't be. fact is, we've shown glimpses of how we need to play if we're going to beat better teams tonight. we've kept possession decently and looked organised as well as holding a high line towards the end rather than dropping deep; i'd say it's a good platform to build on.
Did we win?
I didn't watch the game.
Have never been particularly enamoured with football since I started playing rugby.
I wish there was more rugby on freeview! :(
won 2-1
so yes.
Sounds good
Usually i hear about us losing to sides such as the Swiss, assuming that the Swiss aren't that great.
Who scored and stuff?
also
why was the minutes silence about 20 seconds long?
cos people were ruining it
correct
absolutely fucking embarrassing that England fans can't respect their own players. Trevor Brooking looked furious.
Bentley
We like Bentley.
Yeah.
^ my entire thoughts on the
England game.
Actually, I think I briefly thought 'Owen Hargreaves seems like a nice guy'. But then I stopped and thought 'We like Bentley' and 'Yeah'.
Do you actually like
football, or just footballers?
I like football......
But I was tired and it wasn't exactly great stuff. Yeah.
Didn't watch the 1st half
Saw most of the 2nd. Nothing to get excited about but then it was only essentially a training ground
exercise against a second rate footballing nation.
basically this
Passing was poor in our half of the field and really quite good in theirs. Bentley looked very promising. SWP needs to fuck off. Switzerland's goal was very good indeed.
"second rate footballing nation"
And this right here is why England will never win a major tournament ever again :)
It was funny
hearing Lawrenson crying after 20 minutes. Waah waah. But yeah, England still looked crap and good at the same time. At the very least they won the game (for a change).
people were bitching after the first 20
because we weren't flinging men forward. we were playing it around and keeping the ball in a fairly disciplined manner. under mclaren we would have played it around the back for a bit then launched it forward. there was an almost total absence of that today.
Yeah
totally. England and their long ball game was always a source of amusement for me. They did better today and rightfully so. And their was only ONE joke about winning The World Cup during the whole programme. Is that a touch of humility creeping in? ;)
...
there is still loads of work to be done, however it was good that england didnt panic after conceding. bentley looked a bit good, full-backs were shite, wouldve been better to see abit more ashley young...gerrard was abit deep at times
played alright
not exactly a stern test but we are still a pretty average side ourselves ....
agree about the fullbacks
cole has gone so far backwards it's frightening. brown is abysmal going forward but more positionally disciplined than richards which i imagine is what capello values. other than that i'm impressed.
that really wasn't serie a football
there was a real lack of movement in the last 3rd for the most part, it's telling that both goals came when the midfield actually broke forward with some pace. even then the first goal came from a moment of individual skill from Joe Cole.
England still rely far too much on those individual moments, it's rare that they create anything from basic passing and movement.
i'd say it was serie a football
in terms of the manner in which players held their positions, were defensively solid and measured in possession. i agree to a certain extent about the lack of movement up front but i think capello's first priority has been to organise the team as a disciplined unit.
i didnt tihnk england look all that good defensively
but if i was english i'd be happy. it does look like a system that's going to work once the players get used to it.
for the most part they were playing like that under mcclaren though
this just had less of Rio Ferdinand lumping it to no one. Italian football relies on clever runs from the forwards to make space, otherwise you're just passing it around aimlessly for the whole game. English players are used to being closed down, so when teams back off them they're clueless.
that said, it was certainly better than McClaren's side, but how much of that was down to Capello and how much was the players trying hard to impress i don't know yet.
i'd say the system was certainly capello
before, england attempting to impress would have been gerrard charging forward with no regard for his tactical position. the players are clearly still getting used to the system; i think he sees rooney as possessing the ability to make intelligent runs given his role at utd. i imagine once the system is fully implemented cole, rooney and possibly young will be interchanging positions and pulling defenders wide creating spaces down the centre for gerrard to exploit.
i'm going to disagree there
most of the time under McClaren Gerrard would just sit on the halfway line, along with Lampard. He started venturing forward a lot more when he was next to Barry though, as you'd expect.
I think playing Joe Cole behind Rooney with Young on the left will probably be the best option in future though. Cole and Rooney are easily the best English attacking players.
fair comment
i picked on gerrard because i see him as epitomising a wider problem with the english approach to football, but you're right that he was shackled playing for england under mclaren. i still think the wider point stands though; players attempting to impress by charging all over the place, which has been a problem ever since the fellation of beckham's performance against greece.
Wasn't great
but won comfortably. Can't say I thought Bentley was that impressive. Was also pleased with the lack of long balls.
i didnt think anyone
played that well.
i thought joe cole was good
wright-phillips and rooney had good moments too.
i was so pissed off
when rooney tackled jenas.
international football doesn't really mean anything to me anymore, but i did watch it
the first half was awful, typical England. The second half was better but i thought subsitituting the better players broke up the game. Bently was good first-half, Barry again played well, Joe Cole was probably our best player, Rooney had a good half an hour in the second, Gerrard did nothing bar a good last fifteen minutes, how did he get MoTM? Overall you can't be too harsh on them, it's a whole new setup, and there are some points gained, although i'm completely against international friendlies now. I also thought that England's play was much more expansive with Crouch on, so as much as i'm not really a fan of a big lump upfront we should probably play to our strengths and put him or Heskey in. My strongest XI when fit would be as below, but i'd like to see more of Young, Agbonlahor, Upson & Michael Johnson:
Hart
Richards
Ferdinand
Terry
Lescott
Bentley
Gerrard
Barry
Joe Cole
Crouch
Rooney
^^^^^GEEKS^^^^^^
i wasnt paying much attention but...
i have a feeling the possession only looked better because this was a friendly, and switzerland werent really pressuring england. the second half commentary on the tv was laughably optimistic, even by their usual standards. i can only assume the first half must be have truly awful for the second half to be seen as a good performance.
It was a friendly, and you could tell: both sides were rubbish.
I thought the position rooney playing in the second half was interesting. I'd always thought if you were going to play a 4-5-1 with england, then you'd have trouble fitting rooney or owen in anywhere...
really glad
that we didn't play the long ball. You could see the defenders hesitate as they heard Capello's words in their hears and play a short pass instead. Fans were fools for booing this patience (would they rather us hoof it upfield or just shoot randomly!?!)
However, it also showed up that brown and upson need to improve this aspect of their game to make the grade. I would have richards at RB and terry/woodgate/king ahead of upson
Barry did ok but hargreaves when fully fit IS better in that role
Cole and Bents did very well as did Rooney in a lone role (although he did drop v.deep thus leaving us v.light upfront) and i doubt against the likes of Italy one upfront would be enough
Gerrad & James: can do better
Wes Brown
is Titus Bramble in disguise. He was abysmal in the first half. Didn't see the ball in the second, which was quite fortunate.
Gerrard wasn't on the pitch in the first half, and wasn't in the game for a lot of the second either. He got involved in a few key plays, and somehow got man of the match - they were obviously watching a different match to me!
Rooney was man of the match. Ran nonstop and did some good stuff.
There's definitely a lot of positives to be taken from the game, however as I'm English I'll focus on the negatives..... Brown, Ashley Cole, Barry, and for the first half Gerrard were poor.
lol
Barry was one of out better players. Infact he's ALWAYS one of our better players. First name on the teemsheet, for me.
owen hargreaves
is a better option.
don't be silly
Barry's played five games for England since he started playing regularly again hasn't he? He's been the best player on the park in three of those.
i agree with sharp
Barry may well have played well recently (by no means was he the best player tonight!)
Hargreaves is awesome when he is match fit and playing regularly. He is much more experiance at the highest level and as seen in previous tournaments is one of england's best players on the big stage.
In the mean time Barry should always be in the squad and is more consistent/effective than say carrick.....although Huddlestone could be a challenger if he continues to progress this and next season.
I like Barry
but I disagree. I thought he was poor tonight.
^
i agree with everything you wrote there.
Yep
But it's the legendary Stevie G
He's untouchable! Haven't you realised that yet. Sadly he's here for the duration, and beyond by the look of things...
Why were all the pundits creaming over Bentley?
It's like they had a script that they were going to stick to regardless.
One good cross in the first half, but aside from that he dwelt on the ball too long and put a couple of crosses straight out of play. He was completely anonymous in the second half, I kept on thinking he's been subbed.
They put together a package of Cole highlights at half time, but for all their words, could not find one decent piece of footage featuring Bentley.
i thought Bentley played well, but...
he's just a young Beckham. I want to see wingers that can beat their man, he's got no pace at all.
A young Beckham
with half the ability.
By Bentleys age, Beckham had scored from the half way line.
Agreed
I felt Bentley lacked a bit of pace. Thought he was pretty average tonight in all honesty. He played reasonably well but didn't warrant such high praise, not to my mind anyway.
The first half an hour was a little shaky, which worried me slightly, but it's to be expected in a relatively unfamiliar system with a new manager after only 3 days training.
Brown and Upson in the first half were very nervous and seemed out of their depth, but they both grew as the game went on. Still not sure about the one up-front tactic. We will obviously get better at it as time goes by, if it is indeed a tactic Capello will employ on a regular basis, but I'm a traditional 4-4-2 kind of guy... not that that has done us any good in the past so something new is definitely worth experimenting with, particularly as we don't seem to have an out and out goal scorer at the moment. Much as I like Owen he's not half the player he was at Liverpool, Rooney is a tremendous player but doesn't put away enough chances - he's a creator rather than finisher, Crouch much the same (but replace 'tremendous' with 'very good'), different style to Rooney but more of a support striker than a goalscorer and I can't see Bent, Defoe, Johnson or Heskey becoming prolific internationally. Maybe 4-5-1/4-1-4-1 with goals from midfield is the way forward for us with this bunch of players.
Overall I was very impressed though. Granted it was 'only' Switzerland, but we started getting the basics right again which was good to see. Still a long way to go and the real proof of the pudding will be in the Autumn but I think we're moving in the right direction. Discipline, composure and patience is how to win games. It may be duller to watch than top half Premier League football), but technically it's much better football and is how international football matches are won.
The fans who were booing were probably typical Geordie Keegan eulogists.
:O
Yeah, I went there.
to me he'll always be David Betnley
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Football/Pix/pictures/2007/11/20/betnley4.jpg
I disagree.
He can beat players, more so than Beckham ever could. He doesn't have the pace of a Wright-Philips or a Lennon but he still got enough ability with the ball at his feet.
I don't know how players are supposed to impress if everyone is this ridiculously critical. So he didn't score take it round half their team Maradona style or make every single one of his passes, tackles, crosses etc. England fans live in a dream world, wake up and be realistic.
Don't bother giving me the typical response of saying that I only listen to pundits, blah, blah, blah. I've rated Bentley for a long time, even when he was on loan at Norwich I thought he looked a great prospect.
Capello
looks like hes having small panic attacks every time england lose the ball. I saw he included Lescott in the squad though. McClarens still got his finger in the pie.
.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42732000/jpg/_42732057_mcclarensmile270.jpg
"thats football"
BOOOOOOOOOO
oooooooooo
^ this is one of the sulkiest comments i've heard in a long time
grow a pair!
main observation
the ball was played along the ground for pretty much 99% of the first half, and most of the second too. this is 1) progression tactically, and 2) progression insofar as english footballers can be made to do as they're told
...
Joe Hart
Micah Richards
Ashley Cole
Rio Ferdinand
John Terry
Owen Hargreaves
Steven Gerrard
David Bentley
Ashley Young
Joe Cole
Wayne Rooney
more United players than City players is a backwards step, imo
Hargreaves out, Michael Johnson in.
I was at the
game, I just got home. North-west London is fucking rubbish.
Anyways, some quetions: how did Steven Gerrard get man of the match? He was massively average.
When did Wayne Rooney become shit?
Wes Brown?
i thought england actually played somewhat well.
albeit it wasn't the greatest performance, but at 2-1 win is a 2-1 win no matter how many times you dissect it. however, i have to say that the lot of england are mindless, idiotic, lad-rock loving, tom clarke-esque fuckwits. The lot of them should be shoot and dumped into the nearest landfill. seriously, they annoy me to no end.
nah
people were booing after england were in a good position to cross the ball, then chose to keep passing backwards to their own half. it's better to create a chance and risk losing posession, than to hold the ball for the sake of it, especially if you're not winning. you say it was moronic, but englands best patch followed.
oh, £12 for fish, chips, peas and pint. rip off?
It's not though
It's better to retain possession whilst probing for space
Exactly
keep ball, make other team run around, get tired, space emerges. This is how teams win things.
I basically agree with what only_shallow says.
Especially the bit about the players being positionally disciplined and that we played a bit more of an Italian style.
1. Bentley Good
2. Brown Bad
3. Rooney isn't a striker
4. Upson not quite up to international standard yet
5. We need a non-Chelsea left-back
6. David James will always make things interesting
hmmm
I'll resist the bait and instead just say Wayne Brown.
JERMAINE JENAS!
GOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAL.
Fuck me Wes Brown surpassed even MY low expectations of him last night.
He nearly got a couple of assists
(for Swiss)
Alright performance
Really isn't too much pulling it apart just yet
I still can't get over
motson and lawrenson blaming us GEEKS for awarding Gerrard player of the year.
the venom in his voice
was very funny
Jermaine Jenas
bar one missed chance, played very well I thought, I was happy for him. I'm no convinced Bentley was any better than he was.
I must've missed something
because bentley did nothing special whenever i saw him.
I shouted at the tv when rooney tackled JJ. JJ NEVER misses one on ones.
except that one he missed
the other day when he tried to place it
agreed
biggest positive was that we limited them to two chances whilst we had numerous. the header they missed was probably easier than the one they scored (which was mainly due to the substitutions just happening)
i thought it was a solid and encouraging performance but we still need to sort out the left side of the park
Our wing backs
were shite first half, and cost us possession several times, nearly ending in a goal for the Swiss more than once. The whole team seemed to be a lot more settled second though (maybe Capello said something nice?). Hopefully one day Wembley might feel like a national stadium, as opposed to a glorified venue for Guns n Roses...
Not getting excited yet.