I had to wait for 40 mins before I could get into work because the bloody protesters are all over the place and the roads are blocked.
I hate protesters at the best of times, and I hate coming into work on a Saturday, so the two combined really, really gets my goat!
Yeah
This idiot i talk to on MSN went to that today, has no clue about it really just "doesn't like violence" and thinks Palestinians and Israelis can live side by side in peace
Pretty stupid
If it makes them happy.
Nah, they irritate me for some reason. Not sure why yet.
Probably because
They think they're all so righteous, they don't really know anything about it all, the crowd is mostly made up of hippies and muslims, they have beards and look like Gandalf or ugly students, they drink ice tea
yeah....damn....muslims....
yep
*Stupid.
I was typing in anger.
That sounds like a sort of futureistic Dragonforce song
"Typing in Anger"
*widdly widdly widdly widdly*
^That's a really fast solo.
*widdly widdly widdly*
^ That's the same solo, six minutes later
sixteen minutes, shirley?
:D
and that's just the first one!
zing
I think what's brilliant about their protest
is they're blaming US military action in Afghanistan for the resurgence of the Taliban.
Surely that's the most inconsistent and illogical statement of any protest group ever?
I think what's brilliant about my spelling and grammar..
...is not very much in that subject line.
really?
surely foreign military action would encourage some form of local military counteraction, ie, a militarized local army, or even the Taliban?
Well of course
But at the same time it's utterly hypocritical or any organisation to be (as the Stop the War Coalltion is) simultaneosuly opposed to the War which removed the Taliban and opposed to the current war because it encourages the Taliban.
Ultimately those at the head of the anti-war movement made the decision in or before 2001 that, despite the human rights abuses inflicted by the Talibna, military action was the wrong step and preferred to leave the Taliban in power. So to then blame the US (who acted in that circumstnace while the US/UK different) is bacially a complete disregad of personal resonsibility and an attept to deny a war that certain left-wingers 'd involved more thna I dod.
yeah
well, i honestly don't think that the US occupation has done much long-term good.
its a self-defeating battle if their action is going to cause their opposition to grow, generating MORE conflict. i think its very very easy to justify these things from the comfort of the UK, but if my country was occupied by the US & whatever forces, it'd be very different.
on the other hand, there is talk of the west's role in regenerating these areas and building a new infrastructure, etc, which - if put into place - could really benefit people. but its been years now, and there has been little evidence of this, its really depressing.
my posiition is: i wish i could find a justification for the occupations, but i cannot. i know there is stigma attached to being anti-war etc, but i'm fairly willing to brave that storm, seeing as i've formed my own opinions from my own research - most of the time away from mainstream left-wing publications.
i'm not an in-your-face protestor, either, i don't think that wins any people over to whatever cause they're arguing. case in point - animal rights protesters in oxford. i really think that this whole series of conflicts has been a gigantic mistake from beginning to the present day, and into the forseeable future.
That's fair enough.
And I utterly agree with your last sentence.
But the point I'm making (quite drunkenly above which is why I drift off into incohereence) is that whatever damage the US occupation has done, it's ludicrous to blame them for an incrase in the Taliban given the Taliban would be in power were it not for the US.
That aside, ultimately (certainly historically, and probably now) the US/UK don't put enough effort into actually rebuilding countries post-war and that's where the work has to be done.
The point regarding Afghanistan was made brilliantly at the end of Charlie Wilson's War when, despite having spent a fortune on a war to drive out the Soviets in Afghanistan, no-one would put forward a much smaller amount to build a decent education system.
And I'm cerainlyt not going to act as an apologist for the US or UK. They've made some monumental fuck-ups and I've been against all the recent wars (and more specificially the way the wars have been approached). But nonetheless the fact remains that some absolute cunts have been removed from power in recent years and it's hard to be sorry about that. Whilst it's certainly fair to say the US isn't doing a wholly good or useful job in these countries, I don't feel they're doing a wholly bad one either.
i think we're on a fairly similar page
i think i'd be a lot more optimistic about the war if it weren't for a number of reasons these ones spring to mind, in general:
a) if it hadn't been so immensely, immediately profitable for private american/foreign investors. previously nationalised services were privatised all at once and auctioned off at super low highly profitable levels.
imagine if this was your country. imagine if, for example, simply using our health service put profit into the pockets of the country that had forcibly occupied yours. not only that, but imagine if this was all at your own personal cost. pretty gutting, no? (god forbid the NHS should get itself into a properly-funded state that might allow it to become profitable...)
b) the action in iraq, whilst it 'swept out' grass-roots saddamn loyalists amongst the low-ranking police officers, did NOT replace high-ranking saddamn-loyal officials. not only this, but the local elections that were held were vetoed by the US. this didn't happen because they had elected saddamn loyalists- they didn't. the US instead reinstalled a lot of the old local officials, who had been undemocratically appointed by saddamn.
in my eyes, we've really done very little to genuinely change anything.
i genuinely don't consider myself a cynic either, i was optimistic that we could do good initially, but i feel incredibly let down. i find the whole thing depressing, embarrassing, harrowing.
ps.
recently i've been stumbling into replying to a lot of your posts, i'm not forum-hanging or anything, its just coincidence. :)
hate protesters...
especially the animal rights bastards, they can shit off.
yeah fuck em
how dare they exercise their democratic right to protest about things they think are wrong
...
And yet, if I were to exercise my democratic right to murder one, I would be the one to go to jail!
No justice.
:D
yeah I was debating whether or not to post that
just on the off chance you were sliming about.
...
Well I'm glad you did, as is your democratic right.
Yeah.
Listen, I can see where this is going, but alas I've got to go to work so I don't have time to get involved in one of your "logical" discussions, but to cut to the chase: I'm right, you're wrong. Talk to you soon.
oh...go on...I'm depressed because Wales actually won something.
...
Erm, except:
1) I wasn't arguing, I was joking referencing the Simpsons. For the record, I fully agree that people have the right to protest.
2) You weren't making any kind of argument at all, since neither CG or myself actually said they shouldn't be able to protest, merely that it was inconveniencing him. And since I get pissed off when people stand on the wrong side of the escalator, I fully sympathise with his sentiments, hence my suggesting that killing one might not be so wrong (see 1)
3) If people have the democratic right to protest, other people have the democratic right to moan about it.
4) Don't blame me for your propensity to make ridiculous argument that you are subsequently unable to defend. I just go where the logic takes me.
5) Pussy.
like, marry me, or something.
room in that arse for two?
Anything for you.
...
There's room in my arse for anyone who looks like this http://tinyurl.com/yqmtcl and has grade 8 piano.
Positions are still open!
Someone cut out a bit of her dress.
...
They didn't do too good a job. You still can't see her tits.
I'd have done a much better job
hiiiiiiyaaaaaaaah!
Yeah!
I was there!
I only went because I knew you'd be pissed off. Support the cause and all that.
hehe i think my hippie flatmate was there
but apparantly he was more excited about the fact he would be walking around the streets of london getting high while people were banging drums and stuff, than the actual protesting
............
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot
good stuff:
http://www.last.fm/music/Tool/_/Useful+Idiot
ah thats a intro... thought it was this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tja6_h4lT6A