Kraftwerk are threatening to sue kraut-prog outfit Kling Klang (pictured), DrownedinSound has learned.
The Rock Action-signed band, whose name is inspired by the Klingklang studio Kraftwerk own, received a fax from a promoter associated with the legendary outfit before a show supporting Portishead in Cologne last Sunday (6 Apr).
Kraftwerk have apparently registered the trademark ‘Klingklang’ – which translates as ‘ding dong’ in German – and are threatening to sue if Kling Klang don’t change their name.
The band's management intend to consult a legal advisor, saying that they are “not too prone to accept Kraftwerk’s request”. They go on to state that the multimillionaire kraut-rock legends should be "paternally gratified" that a band have chosen to find inspiration in the work they’ve produced, though DiS has been asked to make it clear that these are the views of the management and not Kling Klang themselves.
Perhaps their reaction is more understandable when you take into account Kraftwerk refer to their studio as “the mother ship” and they’re so attached to it that they boxed it up and took it out on their 1981 world tour with them.
For now undaunted though, Kling Klang will soon return to the studio to record their new album, the follow-up to Esthetik of Destruction set to arrive through Mogwai’s Rock Action label by the end of the year. Before then, they'll continue to support Portishead next month in France and Belgium.
Got news? Email us at newsdesk@drownedinsound.com
All seems a bit unnecessary
I thoroughly enjoyed Kling Klang at Portishead's Nightmare Before Christmas.
hmm
I never thought of Kraftwerk of money-grabbing scoundrels before, most odd.
Kling Klang 1979
:D
Kraftwerk
can't hope to win, for the reasons that the manager pointed out.
I love Kraftwerk but this is pathetic.
See below
The name...
Was taken from 'Kling Klang' the song as far as I am aware.... Lot's of bands take names from the song titles or lyrics of their heroes.
I think Kraftwerk need to forget the studio and the trade mark thing and just remember that they too once had influences and people to look up to.
It's flattering, no?
completely unnecessary
it's meant as a tribute, here's hoping Kraftwerk have a change of heart about this
I think the fact it says Kling Klang
on most Kraftwerk records (well, from '74 onwards i think?) makes it a bit more than just them simply lifting a song title or a common German phrase. Looking at the back of Die Mensche Maschine, for example, it clearly reads (p) 1978 Kling Klang.
I mean, i can't really go and call a band Autechre simply on the grounds that it's a german word that nobody owns the rights to.
Kling Klang's arguement is a little flimsy.
does it not say "KlingKlang"?
Nope
It does say KLINGKLANG elsewhere on the back though. It says KLING KLANG on the back of Computer World, Electric Cafe, The Mix too. It's a copyrighted name they've used since the 70's.
The occasional lack of a space in between the two words is quite possibly the weakest attempt at keeping the name.
Autechre is a german word?
I don't think it is; I read in an interview that they made it up. Source?
It doesn't matter what Kraftwerk have written on their records. They have only asserted the trademark of "klingklang", which clearly the band are not in breach of.
Ooh
Well, thanks for clearing that up Florian. I didn't know that it "doesn't matter what Kraftwerk have written on their records" and that you've checked their copyrights. Whether or not the band and the court feel this is enough to go on is a different matter though. I hope they get away with it, Kling Klang are a good band, but i was just saying like..
After checking, Autechre certainly doesn't mean what i thought it did, so you're probably right on that one :S
not very fair
bit mean from kraftwerk
greedy? envy?
Why kraftwerk are hassle a very good band like Kling klang (I saw them in Koln supporting Portishead and they were awesome!)?? A bit of envy?? Or just greedy???
Come on Kling Klang!!
But why?
I really don't understand this reaction from Kraftwerk. A record label or a studio are not the same thing as a recording band! I don't get the problem! I mean it is not like they are using the name kraftwerk to make their albums. It is like the dominos sueing domino records. Or matador sueing the matadors or Interpol actually sueing Interpol. I really really don't get it. Sorry tho cause i really like Kraftwerk. And Kling Klang. I didn't even know they were still around! But it is great news!
Good on them
every time i see something advertising this band i get excited that it's something to do with Kraftwerk. Then it's just some band, i've not heard them but i doubt they're as good as Kraftwerk.
thommo
if i say that they have played one of our nights and that we wanted to book them since day 1 would that make you change your mind?
Kling Klang are amazing and I hope that they come out of this stronger. Kraftwerk seem to be being slightly silly regarding this & I hope common sense prevails.
oh i'll happily see them
it's just i always associate that phrase with Kraftwerk. If you say they're good then i'm sure they've got something going for them, i have seem you write about them a lot, and this is obviously good publicity. i was just saying that Kraftwerk have a point.
How?
Kraftwerk can have a point excuse me? They have registered a certain trademark and then they expect people not to use a different name? I mean why they didn't register "kling klang" but Klingklang"? Because it is illegal to put trademark on common words. I mean, not even Bowie who is utterly greedy has sued the kooks. And what about the dandy warhols! that's even a person's name. Kraftwerk are always sueing poeple to attract attention cause they are not doing anyhthing new these days. That is a bit sad, c'mon! As far as Kling Klang are concerned I think they are superb. Like nothing that is around these days. But I thought they split up years ago...
And I love them
I love Kraftwerk and it is sad as a fan to see them behaving in this silly way. I am not questioning their grandeur really but it is like when they asked that guy 100,000 dollars cause he had registered its site using the word kraftwerk somewhere. I shat in my pants and I changed my nickname on myspace! Yes, I am brave!
Well, THAT is silly
but the phrase Kling Klang is heavily related to them. Kooks was one song on one album. Really i hope Kraftwerk don't sue, because although i do see their point it is greedy of them, yes, and i think they would only have an excuse for suing if they were actually performing under the name Kraftwerk, but i think Kraftwerk do have the right to be cheesed off about it. i mean, i'm a big Super Furry Animals fan, but i wouldn't start making music under the name Placid Casual because as their record label moniker it is likely to confuse some people. Plus it would surely be better that they invented a completely new name, or used an existing name humorously like The Dandy Warhols or Brute Forsyth or Wevie Stonder, rather than having people constantly think they're a band that nicked Kraftwerk's trademark.
Having said that, i'd probably have the paternal pride that someone mentioned above if my band was paid homage to like that. But each to their own.
i'm going to listen to some Kling Klang now though, so, maybe Kraftwerk just like giving the next generation extra column inches...?
Kraftwerk...
Are being really unfair and they should be 'paternally gratified' that Kling Klang named their band after a song... Not the studio.
They obviously did not want this reputation damning story to come out, which is why they went through the hassle of obtaining every band member and the management's address to put it on the form.... It's Mafia tactics.
I hope Kling Klang stick to their guns! Fight the power! They have been together for nearly 10 years under this name!
I mean, 'Kling Klang' is the sound of a sword fight, afterall, ironically enough.
Tribute or Disrespect?
Kling Klang is more than just the name of a track from a Kraftwerk album. It is the registered trademark under which ALL Kraftwerk merchandise is sold, including, CDs, DVDs, t-shirts, concert programmes etc, and is the trademark displayed on the official Kraftwerk web site. Kling Klang is also the name of the studio that has been heavily featured as an integral part of the unique sound and presentation of the group. Kraftwerk have built their reputation and image on emphasising their closeness to the studio when all other bands promoted the importance of live music. So important was the Kling Klang studio that it was incorporated (physically transported) to be included as part of the rare live performances. Kling Klang is a german phrase, just as Kraftwerk is a German word, meaning power-station, and both are registered trademarks. Kraftwerk; the group, Kling Klang; the merchandise from the group. I do not believe Kraftwerk have done this in order to generate publicity, anyone who knows anything about Kraftwerk will know how much they have shunned publicity.
The band “Kling Klang” being Kraftwerk fans must have been aware of this, and thus are being disrespectful to Kraftwerk. The fact that the group are from England and chose to have a German name that is clearly associated with a more successful music group should go against them. The Finnish group Panasonic were forced to change their name to Pan Sonic after the electrical goods company of the same name sued. I note that during the 1980s there was a popular group called Power Station, which, as far as I’m aware, were not sued by Kraftwerk. Perhaps the English group Kling Klang could change their name to Ding Dong.
re: Tribute or Disrespect?
*Florian from Kraftwerk enters room*
;)
Yeah, i agree.
It's sort of what i was saying, but with the sarcasm and snooty, internet-goon vibe taken out :)
I also have quite a funny story that COMPLETELY justifies Kraftwerk's actions with regards Kling Klang really having to now change their name, but not even i would stoop so low as to post it on a public forum. But yeah, it's safe to say that the news story above doesn't quite grasp all the details.
And the 'space or no space' arguement is quite flimsy.
And another thing...
I would like to add that I think it is unfair for people to accuse Kraftwerk of being greedy because they have threatened to sue. Not everything is about money, even in the music business! It seems to me that Kraftwerk are more interested in protecting intellectual property. The only way to do that is to register a trademark then threaten to sue anyone who tries to use it for other purposes. Read the article carefully;.Kraftwerk have “threatened” to sue, they have not yet done so. This would suggest that if the English group Kling Klang (sorry, but I can only think of Kraftwerk when I hear that name) were to change their name then there would be no need to proceed. That is not greed. The fact is, that myself and others (even on this blog) would never have heard of the band unless there was some confusion about their association with Kraftwerk. The English group Kling Klang themselves say they “ were expecting the notice ….since we first stepped on German soil” is fairly convincing evidence that they were fully aware that their choice of name was likely to provoke a reaction.
Kraftwerk have had many opportunities to make money and gain free publicity from their branding. Many well established bands such as U2, David Bowie, Elton John, and more have wanted to work with Kraftwerk but have not been successful in finding co-operation. The manager of the English group Kling Klang describes Kraftwerk as having a “ notorious bent in sueing people”. The fact is that Kraftwerk are publicity shy but are uncompromising in their music and image. They are the epitome of artistic integrity and do not sell themselves out, something very rare in the music world. They have created something very precious in the terms of music and art that many people want to associate themselves with it rather than create their own unique identity. They simply wish to protect their art.
From what I can see from this article, it was not Kraftwerk who brought the case to the attention of the press. That is to say, the English group Kling Klang have deliberately chosen a name that is already associated with Kraftwerk, expect to get sued by Kraftwerk, and break the news to the media when it happens. It is so easy for one to diligently follow in the shadows of the mighty then claim to be oppressed.
Kraftwerk
should take this in the spirit it was meant as - the band are paying homage to them. not like they need the money...
Re: Kraftwerk
I would have been inclined to believe that the English group Kling Klang were paying homage to Kraftwerk (in a naively disrespectful way) if it were not for the comments in the above article. The English group Kling Klang argue that Kraftwerk do not have a right own the trademark Kling Klang, that they should be “paternally gratified” that someone else has used it, and that they actually expect to be sued by Kraftwerk. This suggests that Kraftwerk have reacted appropriately by sending a private warning to them, which it seems they chose to make public. It’s not about money.
do you perchance work for Kraftwerk?
:)
Do I work for Kraftwerk?
no
They should concentrate
on suing Coldplay instead
Coldplay
Coldplay used the melody from Kraftwerk's Computer Love for their single Talk. They did, however, go to the bother to write to Kraftwerk and ask permission. Kraftwerk said yes!
To be honest...
Kling Klang have been together since 1999... If you Google 'Kling Klang' the band's website comes up. I find it hard to believe that Kraftwerk would not have been aware of the band in the 9 years they have been together..... If this is the case then Kraftwerk have delayed action and have no case.
And Ian-T, 'Kraftwerk' is not trade marked... The symbol of the band was but you cannot trade mark a common phrase. So the two names can't be compared...
Oh, and on your argument about Kraftwerk trying to keep this private. By putting everybody's (Kling Klang and theiur management) addresses on the notice it shows to me that the band are trying to keep them silent. Probably afraid of bad press... It's a shame that people in this world are not willing to spread their 'art' as you put it. A real shame. It is greedy.
I just wish Kling Klang stick the finger up at a band who have not performed in god knows how long and therefore are not sticking to the trade mark terms they registered under - things to do with live performance and entertainment. Kling Klang could argue that after 5 years they are no longer in the same business.
Let's be honest
I don’t find it hard to believe that Kraftwerk would not have heard of the English group Kling Klang until recently. They are not that famous, and it seems some of their own fans thought they had split up years ago.
I am not aware of the regulation that says common words cannot be trademarked. If that is the case then any band such as the Beatles, Eagles, or companies such as Orange cannot have protection of their name, and that is just not the case. You cannot form a band calling yourself the Beatles even if you did use a different font style, colour design etc. Trademark of a common word does not of course give you the sole right to use that word, that would be ridiculous. It does however allow the registered user protection where someone else uses the word or phrase in a way which might cause confusion. For example, if a textile company decide to call themselves Orange, the telecommunications company have no grounds to object because there is no confusion (unless they use a similar logo which is then a copyright issue). However, if another phone company were to adopt the name they would be quickly sued.
Back to Kling Klang, and by the way the word only has to be similar not exactly the same to be challenged as intellectual property, hence the space between the words is not important. In the music business Kling Klang is the company that solely handle Kraftwerk’s merchandise. This has been well known and well used for many years. Regarding trademarks lapsing after five years: Kling Klang released the Kraftwerk Minimum Maximum DVD in 2005. The Kling Klang on-line shop is still trading at this very minute. Kling Klang are currently promoting live Kraftwerk concerts which will take place in Minneapolis, Denver, Millwaukee and Indio during the next ten days.
Regarding the names and addresses on the fax: I cannot say what Kraftwerk intended by this, but I certainly would not suggest it is sinister. To say they are using “mafia” tactics is defamatory. I would surmise that Kraftwerks’s legal representative will also mail each individual on the fax. It may well be the case that the band are being ill-informed by their management and have therefore been contacted as individuals.
The English group Kling Klang make good music and have benefited from (illegally) using the Kling Klang trademark for a number of years. Like many other bands/writers/actors/artists, when they achieve fame they realise that there name is similar to one that is already registered. That is an inconvenience and not the end of the world. It is the price of fame. What I do object to is this: The English group Kling Klang are currently involved in a cheap promotional gimmick whereby you get publicity by getting into a public argument with an established band, then present themselves as a David versus Goliath. Inevitably people will support the underdog. Well I don’t buy it. It is the English group Kling Klang that are publicity seeking and have been greedily feeding off Kraftwerk’s reputation for the last nine years. I say to the members of the English group Kling Klang; ok when you started out you chose a name without thinking of the consequences, fine. But you are getting big now. Your music is good and speaks for itself. Don’t let your management take you down this pathetic publicity route just to promote your new album (which I’m sure will be very good).
I just think
people should relax in life more.
Kraftwerk should accept that the name derived from one of their songs... Which, in turn, derived from a common phrase used in the playground.
Just chiiiiill Kraftwerk, no one is going to steal your thunder.
Relax, don't do it!
If the English group Kling Klang had selected another title from the same album, such as SPULE 4, STROM or WELLENLANGE, there would be no problem. In fact I could see that as a respectful tribute. Unfortunately they chose the trademarked name of Kraftwerk's merchandising company, and this is confusing. They should be cool with this error of judgement and just change their name. They won't lose their fans as a result. Panasonic become Pan Sonic with no problems. They could get some publicity from it. How about a competition to suggest a new name for the English group formally know as Kling Klang? I’ll start off: 1) The Klangers 2) Kling and Klang, 3) Klu Kling Klan (maybe not!).
jurgen lean and the kling klang klong
Ian-t. Or Ian-K (raftwerk)?
Oh my god Ian, what is it? Have you got your period? What an acrimony! It is not like Kraftwerk are your relatives. Or are they? I think you have read the article in the wrong way and in the wrong spirit really. First the "paternally gratified" is in theinvetrted commas and to me and anyone who hasn't got pre mestrual syndrome, sounds more like someone who knows his shit so well, know what he ahs done so that he is even able to crack a smile if a bunch of kids decides to find inspiration in his work. I think you have been disrespectful yourself. you don't know what was in kling klang's mind when theyc hose the name for the band. i think they have been resepctful. even too much. a bit obedient i would say, in fact they say they want tof ind a solution to amek every party happy. more reasonable than this? and another thing, what you have read is an artcile, whcih is tosa y an interpretation of something that the management sai to the reporter. it is not an official statement, so maybe the manager is an utter idiot - i do believe so - and have chseon the wrong words. it is not like, kling klang have released a statement and blah blah blah. and as far kraftwerk are concerned, i think they knew about the abnd and they decide to wait until they gained some sort of notoriety, by like supporting portishead. in fact they are not sueing TUSSLE who have an album called kling klang. why is that? i don't see all this bona fide from them. remember they had the courage to ask 100000 dollars to a college kid cause he ahd creatde a fan site about them! and they don't even own the trademark of the word krfatwerk. they own the trademark of the LOGO. it is a different thing indeed. and they are not sueing coldplay beacuse maybe coldplay have the msot powerful alwyers and would certainly find a way to strip kraftwerk down. or, more likely, they have received some money from coldplay, out of court, to use the sample. i even doubt kling klang have the money to afford to pay lawyer to give them advice. sorry if i take it so personally. but it is the old "the big against the tiny" thing. why, for once can't be the tiny to win?
sorry for my spelling!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh my god Ian, what is it? Have you got your period? What an acrimony! It is not like Kraftwerk are your relatives. Or are they? I think you have read the article in the wrong way and in the wrong spirit really. First the "paternally gratified" is in inverted commas and to me and anyone who hasn't got pre mestrual syndrome, sounds more like someone who knows his shit so well, know what he has done so that he is even able to crack a smile if a bunch of kids decides to find inspiration in his work. I think you have been disrespectful yourself. you don't know what was in kling klang's mind when they chose the name for the band. i think they have been respectful. even too much. a bit obedient i would say, in fact they say they want to find a solution to make every party happy. more reasonable than this? and another thing, what you have read is an article, whcih is to say an interpretation of something that the management said to the reporter. it is not an official statement, so maybe the manager is an utter idiot - i do believe so - and have cheson the wrong words. it is not like, kling klang have released a statement and blah blah blah. and as far kraftwerk are concerned, i think they knew about the band and they decided to wait until they gained some sort of notoriety, by like supporting portishead. in fact they are not sueing TUSSLE who have an album called kling klang. why is that? i don't see all this bona fide from them. remember they had the courage to ask 100000 dollars to a college kid cause he had created a fan site about them! and they don't even own the trademark of the word kraftwerk. they own the trademark of the LOGO. it is a different thing indeed. and they are not sueing coldplay because maybe coldplay have the most powerful lawyers and would certainly find a way to strip kraftwerk down. or, more likely, they have received some money from coldplay, out of court, to use the sample. i even doubt kling klang have the money to afford to pay a lawyer to give them advice. sorry if i take it so personally. but it is the old "the big against the tiny" thing. why, for once can't be the tiny to win? Cindy-spellingismyvocation
Personally...
I can't see what was so wrong with what the management say in the article...
"admiration for Kraftwerk’s immense contribution to modern music"
"We do understand where Kraftwerk's request originates from and that we will do our best to find a way to make every party happy and to solve the thing peacefully because we do admire Kraftwerk very much"
.....
And they are very respectful with the 'paternally gratified' thing. The quote is placed into it's own context by DiS so the surrounding sentence is unavailable - which does little to make this sound a sincere statement, but it would be. I'm sure that if you name a band after the song of an influence then you would be delighted for that band to have heard of you. I would imagine that this is the equivalent of Kraftwerk selling out a concert or lots of albums - surely it is the biggest compliment a band could hope for from fans? Better than a cover song - it is basically saying "We love this band and that song! Enough to be associated with the name throughout our careers".
And why paper over the fact that Kraftwerk have a habit of suing people and why not speak your corner and tell it like it is... Ian-T, it is completely naive to think that Krafewerk had not heard of Kling Klang before now - how did that slip through their chain of command? What are they doing now, running airport/border patrol or something up in their iron tower in Berlin? RED ALERT RED ALERT SOME SCOUSERS CALLED KLING KLANG HAVE ENTERED OUR DOMAIN...! I DON'T CARE IF THEY ARE MY SONS, TAKE THEM DOWN.
We can be heroes just for one day
See, the band disagree with the manager. They are fans, I told you, they just wanted to homage their heroes. It is so obvious!
the management
seemed quite complimentary to me but with a hard edge too... What every good manager has.
It helped this get press and give Kling Klang publicity... That is their job!
WHATEVAH!
i guess it is important that the band pointed out they weren't on the same page. it is right. bands need managers but they have to maintain their own opinion. it is like saying oh yeah Alan Mcgee thinks this while oasis think that. probably they don't want to expose themselves too much cause the matter is really delicate and they realize this and don't want to seem to cocky! hey thetenneryoulost, are you the manager??? or amybe you are dating him???? just joking!
I'm sure....
Alan McGee would want to distance himself from Oasis' opinions rather than the other way around, no?
Please get your facts right. I'm pretty sure it was a girl but I'm not a fan of assertive women - I prefer them in the kitchen and not making any comment whatsoever. ;op
I can't believe you've felt compelled
to try and explain these simple things to these cretins below. What a complete waste of time.
"I just think people should relax in life more".
Jesus wept.
????
Make yourself intellegible, mate!
????
I mean, what do you mean???? It is not clear. Why being cryptic really? Nonsense
What's to understand?
This was in reply to ian-t. The fact that it says "cretins below" is because i didn't realise how many posts had been posted in reply to the same message, so mine has ended up at the bottom. Still, the fact you can't grasp what even i'm saying proves my point further. Ian clearly laid out why Kraftwerk are in the right to be trying to stop KK from using their name and you've made fools of yourselves with your series of "oh yeah??" responses.
You're obviously members of Kling Klang or friends of theirs.
*scrunch!!*
Did you hear that? That's Kling Klang clutching at straws!
ah ah ah!
So you are employee of Der Kraftwerk Wermacht!!!! Ian has been the one who got more heated up by the entire thing. C'mon, he posted a thing long 10000 words at three in the morning! So it is enough to suspect he is some kind of Kraftwerk insider! But we joked about the thing! I guess all the people defending Kling Klang are doing so because they like the band. So yeah, I can call myself a fan. So what? That makes me stupid? Tha makes me uncapable of considering a thing unfair? Who do you think you are to judge people like this? Why you have to be so aggressive? You too, premestrual syndrome? Or maybe your sexual life sucks...
I'm sorry you think that
He genuinely could not have come across more level-headed and calm in trying to explain this quite simple issue to people. Yeah, it was long, but it all made perfect sense. And if you think i'm being aggressive, you really need to check your dictionary (i'm thinking all of your "how dare you!" questions make YOU look a little hot under the collar, but i don't really mind).
I really like Kling Klang too, but they're monumental idiots and anyone defending this looks completely ridiculous, especially when they have absolutely no grasp of how these sorts of things work. Even more so when you factor in the fact that they have to lower themselves to taking cheap pops about people's sex lives. Seriously man, how old are you?
ps. Your post was almost as long as his, and you posted it twice.