:(
I didnt realise the exploited were supposed to be racist. Thats what you get for taking a chance on a band you dont know much about.
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i wouldnt let it bother you
ah yes
Kula Shaker are the best example.
Kula Shaker never said anything to imply they were racist.
I mean Crispian Mills was pretty stupid in what he said (I think it was that he liked the Swastika and saw it as a symbol of peace, as I believe was its original meaning) but there wasn't anything in it that implied any kind of racism.
Exactly, he is into Hindu Symbolism
and Hitler stole the Swastika shape from the Hindu symbol.
Yeah
But Hitler just change the symbol's direction.
I think he was trying to be ironic.
^ ACCIDENTLY RACIST
did you find out by reading about the band or
listening to the music? it's not your fault, ignorance is bliss and all that. i say take it back, get a refund.
there is nothing in the songs to suggest they are racist
but the singer in particular has links with far right groups and stuff and has said the odd dodgy thing apparently.
I think i had read it before but i had forgot.
I get around this by not buying British Punk
primarily because it generally sucks.
incorrect
some british punk is brilliant. the song is quite good but yknow theyve kind of put me off now.
i also bought an MDC record today which is pretty cool.
I said 'generally' :)
well of course there is a glut of punk bands
(particularly formed in the 2nd wave) that are gonna be crap, but i think british punk is just as hit and miss as american hardcore.
Which one?
I have a couple...pretty good stuff generally.
ive got millions of dead cops
and another one ive forgot the name of, but i got smoke signals today. theyre really quite good.
I didn't know
Zimbabwe's Movement for Democratic Change made records
They're not racist
(spot the politics geek)
dead prez
have a real chip on thier shoulder
so you bought
You Are The Quarry?
i'd only worry about purposely buying records by bands that might be racist
i wouldnt even worry about that
^About to be sued
How did you get in here McNicolas!
Evil always finds a way.
Pfff, a fair chunk of hip hop verges on racist.
i suppose
but still, im not happy. :(
verges?!?!
.....hahaha
way to be a massive bellend
context
please
does Public Enemy count?
i know it's not all of them, but Terminator X once had quite a massive anti-semitic tyrade that cost him his band membership didn't he?
public enemy hate everything and everyone
***********************
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/53796
I love that article so much
:D
"Unfortunately, so long as the show is under siege by a constant stream of potential bum-rushers, there seems to be no end in sight for this conflict."
it was Professor Griff
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Griff
didn't go down too well with MC Serch out of 3rd Bass, I think they were touring together at the time...
Ah yes
my apologies to the X family.
pretty obvious that
the racism the OP was referring to was white racism. twats
i mean x-clan's "to the east blackwards" and ice cube's "death certificate" are two of my favorite albums of all time but i knew they contained cracka-hatin lyrics before i bought them. i also understand why they do
how can you justify any form of racism?
im not justifying it, per se
im saying i understand the contexts in which they exist. i mean, yeah, "horny lil' devil" by ice cube is a racist record, "day of outrage" by x-clan is a racist record, and i would sincerely like to annoy both cube and brother j in some form by mocking the method in which they expressed themselves. but ice cube, in 1991, in los angeles, saying he wants to kill a devil when he sees the whites of his eyes, or threatening to burn down korean convenience stores in retaliation for perceived anti-black racism, is not the same as some white kid saying he wants to kick all non-whites out the country.
"white people" (as in stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com) like to think all races are equal, and so consequently any case of racism from race x to race y is equivocal to any case of racism from race y to race z. this is not the case. if you cant see that, i cant help you. and if public enemy is the first thing you think of when seeing a thread about racist records, i think it's a safe bet you have a case of poorly-suppressed racism, or at least paranoia
...
"if public enemy is the first thing you think of when seeing a thread about racist records"
Show us where anyone said it was the first thing they thought of.
this ^ no one said that
im going to see public enemy in a few weeks so i dont really have much of a problem with them!
But anyway back to you original point. I agree that white to black racism has historically been far more prevalent, but that definately does not justify black to white racism. Anyone who even thinks about suggesting that is wrong. Yes the 'n word' is far more powerful, but theres no way you could ever say that being prejudiced against one group of people is not as bad as being predjudiced against another group.
but it exists FOR A REASON
centuries of oppression and stigmatism? the still-very-much-motherfucking-lingering legacy of white privilege?
my central point is that one case of racism from one person of one race onto another is not automatically equivalent to another case of racism from one person of another race onto another of another. as much as WHITE PEOPLE would love it to be
Yes the history affects the gravity of the racism
but it doesnt make black on white racism any less wrong than white on black racism.
i really dont see
how the title equates the body of your post
yeah, if a gang in harlem beats up a belgian tourist simply for being white, then yeah. reprehensible.
but the rage on death certificate is not in any way remotely comparable with some random dumbass nazi metal record that desires "racial purity" or some shit. this is surely obvious?
i'll just put forward at this point the fairly obvious "guilty for being white" as an example of a racially-charged white-on-black record which is absolutely not in any way racist
"not remotely comparable with some random dumbass nazi metal record that desires "racial purity""
Well obviously it isn't comparable but that's got fuck-all to do with skin colour. It's 'cos that record's demanding racial purity.
A fascist black act demanding racial purity would be entirely comparable (and indeed identical) to a fascist white act demanding racial purity. Surely THIS is obviously and you've disproved your own point?
but such an act
wouldn't and doesn't exist, because the ideologies of white supremacists are those of white supremacists, developed over centuries. it is not immediately, automatically transferable to black people. because that just wouldnt make any sense.
Not in directly the same way but it's a mistake to think black fascism doesn't exist.
Look at Zimbabwe for evidence of that. And the ethnic cleaning in Rwanda. Also Al-Quaeda, Baathist Iraq are evidence that fascist politics aren't the sole preserve of white people.
what the
when did i say anything resembling "fascist politics aren't the sole preserve of white people"? we're not even talking about fascism, we're talking about racism.
and yeah, zimbabwe is racist. of course. but saying "it's like the same as apartheid except in reverse" is not true. mugabe's politics are a reaction to colonialism, and based on anger against previous white oppression. like i just said below to answer the noi point, they are not based on centuries of teaching which state the black man is superior.
my point is, taking a colorblind approach to instances of racism is stupid and wrong. but this is not in any way, for example, saying a random white person who gets beat up for entering the wrong part of newark is any less individually reprehensible than a bunch of hicks in the deep south who spot up a black dude and beat him up.
Nation of Islam?
Do they count?
no
as much as i think they're complete idiots and am glad they're largely irrelevant, the noi developed as part of the civil rights movement as a REACTION to centuries of slavery and oppression. it was essentially the result of the extremist end of the civil rights/black power movement. noi ideology its not built on centuries of ideology which state africans are superior beings. its not the same. as i said, white people in the us have no need to be any more "supreme", because they already are.
first thing they posted?
or are am i to assume that they made a few first drafts of different replies then chose the one they felt most appropriate?
Professor Griff did get kicked out of the band for anti-Semitic comments though
so it's hardly the most inappropriate of racism to bring up. I can't think of many other bands where someone got kicked out for making racist comments so I don't see why you find it so odd they'd come up in the thread.
it was my second post
after morrissey
fascinating
well, y'know.
It's not great being accused of being a white oppressor for saying that anti-semitism might be a bit racist. Ah well. See you soon, cracka.
"See you soon, cracka."
imagining you saying that is kinda the funniest thing ever.
Only one problem with what you said is that it's utter nonsense.
The tendency to excuse racism in other cultures is deeply patronising.
Plus the logic is deeply flawed. Many white people in somewhere like Burnley perceive anti-white racism from Asian people. Does that give them the right to express racist feelings about all Asian people? Of course not. So why would it be an acceptable response to anti-black racism from Koreans?
its not patronising
its realistic.
you're falling right into the trap by saying "such-and-such" claims "such-and-such". its all about context, and history. an individual case is an individual case.
ice cube's "death certificate" was largely an attempt to reflect the young black consciousness in LA in the early 90s. black korea was an attempt to put on a record the frustration and anger the black community felt with the racial profiling korean store owners apparently practiced in regard to their customers (a practice which resulted in unjust
deaths, and consequently, and fortunately, criminal convictions).
i give little more credence to asian-on-white racism than i do to white-on-anything-but-white. but as i said, you've fallen into the trap by perceiving x=y and y=z. i mean, equating asian-british and white-british with african-american and european-american is patently and insanely ridiculous. surely you can see that.
NO
just because one type of racism was more prevalent, or with worse consequences does not make it more wrong than any other form of racism.
All racism is equally wrong.
you're missing the point
which is that "racism" is not a concept that can be properly applied as a construct to all races in all nations. i repeat, for example: "equating asian-british and white-british with african-american and european-american is patently and insanely ridiculous."
"racism" is just a vague social construct, something that develops in a certain scenario from a series of historical events. it's not fucking mathematics.
Actually racism is the belief that one race is genetically and culutrally superior to another
and should accordingly be given preferential treatment at the expense of another group. Obviously people use it in contexts not directly related to that but to call it a "vague social construct" isn't true as it technically has a very specific definition.
ahaa
"Actually racism is the belief that one race is genetically and culutrally superior to another and should accordingly be given preferential treatment at the expense of another group"
well, if you understand that, surely you can see that artists from a race/culture that for centuries has been made to believe that they are "genetically and culutrally (inferior) to another and that (they) should accordingly be given preferential treatment at the expense of (you)", is not the same as some kid from iowa who really hates niggers.
i mean, do you expect african-american artists to suddenly forget everything? after which point exactly? four acres and a mule? frustration and anger still exists and that, particularly in the immediate post-reagan era that the two records i'm referring to come from, will be expressed. admittedly that was on many occasions taken to extremes and that i recognize (i mean, i still harbor an ambition to fuck ice cube's sister) but nevertheless....it's not the same. not now...hopefully not ever.
No they are allowed to resent the racism that occured
but to hate all white people as a result? thats just as bad.
but
there's a difference between "kill the devils", which is for all intents and purposes (at least in the early 90s) a statement of defiance, and "kill the niggers", which is a statement of racial supremacy. unlike black people, white people have no reasonable need to desire racial power, because they already have it. any desire for more "whiteness", at least in the US, is pretty much inherently racist. not the case the other way round
Nah
you are just making excuses for racism now.
The wish for racial equality i support, the statement that white people are evil i dont.
do you
or do you not agree there is a massive difference between the two things i mentioned?
nowhere did i ever justify someone saying the statement "white people are evil"
well if the 'devils'
refer to the white race then there is no difference. if it refers to opressors then of course i do.
it refers to the white establishment
who rule the cities in which the artists i refer to reside. who are, consequently, through law enforcement and governance, seen as oppressors.
if some white belgian tourist gets beat up in harlem simply for being there, then yes, that's reprehensible. but thats besides the point.
.
its not racist to hate people who opress you. but if you just hate all white people then that is racist.
look
it depends what you mean by "hate all white people". its not just hip hop artists. both charlie mingus and miles davis (at least...those two are the only two who are documented) had a in-built dislike/fear of "white people" (this didnt stop them hiring white musicians or having white friends) because they were routinely victimized and beaten up as kids simply for being black. miles said, paraphrasing, "(he) was the best at his school at the trumpet but all the blue-eyed kids won the awards. from that point on I made it my aim to be better than anyone white on my horn." putting that as "racism" on the same level as, i dunno, david duke, is just retarded and counterproductive. and there are not many degrees of separation between the sentiments of miles in interview and the sentiments of ice cube on record.
you keep missing the point
that im trying to make. Im going to revise now.
I do appreciate all that.
And I fully understand how a black person might feel bitter and pissed-off with white people in general. But that doesn't make black-on-white or black-on-anyone-else racism acceptable and doesnt change the fact it's rooted in the same prejudices and tendecies to group all people of one colour as the same as white-on-black prejudice is.
it's not acceptable
it's just more understandable
and i resent the fact that public enemy and, uh, *cough*, *blows nose*, "a fair chunk of hip hop" is being mentioned so soon here
But I don't see why you resent it with Public Enemy.
I can sort of see your point about "a fair chunk of hip-hop" but given Professor Griffin was kicked out the band for racism against Jews (whcih actually should clear Public Enemy's name as they acted swiftly) I can see precisely why they'd come up.
my point was
does it count if you listen to them and only one of them is a racialist?
professor griff
was never little more than a hanger-on with public enemy anyway, and he was kicked out fairly rapidly
And whether you like or not you're comments are very patronising.
You're argument implies that it's unreasonable to expect the same standards of behaviour from non-white people as you would from white people. Which is frankly disrespectful and patronising.
Im not denying that social context makes for example
calling a black person the 'n word' more offensive than a black person calling a white person a honkey or whatever.
Im just saying that they are both equally wrong.
.
what's the difference between "offensive" and "wrong"?
Surely even you know that :P
the power of racism to offend varies, but that doesnt mean hatred of someone based on skin colour or origin is more acceptable in some instances.
I'm not saying their identical but the flaws in the logic remain,
Cultural relavatism has some merit in some arguments but in no way should be used to defend irrational prejudices or claim those prejudices are more acceptable in some cases than othe