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Mogwai: Hate World Leaders UPDATED

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by Gareth Dobson
News just in, Mogwai have announced a London tourdate on May 22nd at The Scala. Tickets are on sale now... be quick!

To celebrate the forthcoming release of their new album and an extensive European tour, Mogwai have printed up a special limited edition run of t-shirts, aimed at promoting in no uncertain term, their opinion of today's world leaders.

Currently available in limited numbers at their on-line store, and probably on merchandise stalls throughout the summer, are two garments emblazoned with the slogans:

Bush: is a Cunt
and
Blair: is a Pie

The items follow the printing of t-shirts in 1999 with the legend blur: are shite on them. Accordingly, this 'classic' has also been made available again.

The tops are bound to disappear faster than a Glastonbury ticket on ebay, so get your orders for this summer's essential festival wear in quickly.

For George, Tony, Blur and other bits of cotton, hit here

In slightly less bizarre 'gwai news, the band have officially announced the title of their album as 'Happy Music For Happy People', which is scheduled for a June 9th release through Chemikal Underground Records, the same day as Radiohead's ('stolen') 'Hail To The Thief'.

Catch the noisy varmits on the road accordingly:

April
18th - Thessaloniki, Mylos Cub (Greece)
19th - Athens, ARK Nr 6 (Greece)

May
3rd - Bergen, Bergen Music Festival TBA (Norway)
4th - Oslo, John Dee (Norway)
7th - Norwich, Waterfront - with Kling Klang
8th - Northampton, Soundhaus with Kling Klang
10th - Dublin, Village (Stuart's birthday)
12th - Cardiff, Uni with Kling Klang
13th - Portsmouth, Wedgewood Rooms with Kling Klang
14th - Brighton, Concorde 2 with Kling Klang
15th - Oxford, Zodiac with Kling Klang
16th - Leeds, Cockpit with Kling Klang
18th - Liverpool, Masque with Kling Klang
19th - Edinburgh, Queens Hall with Kling Klang
22nd - London, The Scala support TBA
25th - Barcelona, Primavera Festival Main Stage (Spain) with Sonic Youth
26th - Brussels, AB Box (Belgium)
27th - Cologne, Prime Club (Germany)
28th - Hamburg, Schlachthof (Germany)
29th - Amsterdam, Melkveg (Netherlands)
31st - Copenhagen, Pumpehuset (Denmark)

June
1st - Berlin, Maria (Germany) with James Orr Complex
2nd - Strasbourg, Laiterie (France) - with James Orr Complex
3rd - Lyon, Ninkasi (France) - with James Orr Complex
5th - Paris, Elysee Montmartre (France) - with James Orr Complex
6th - Nantes, Olympique (France) with James Orr Complex
22nd - Los Angeles, All Tomorrows Parties (USA)
27th - Glastonbury Festival Main Stage

July
27th Naeba, FujiRock White Stage (Japan)

BTW, can anyone tell DiS what 'Pie' means as an offensive term? Our Glaswegian slang is a bit rusty.


Mogwai: Hate World Leaders

Pie = front bum/Vagina

Mogwai: Are Shite

And what a great time to be anti-war this is.....

Accept it....Blair got it right

Re: Mogwai: Are Shite

yeah, yeah we all knew the war was going to be won from the outset. {grave tone of voice}: "But at what cost?"

Re: Mogwai: Are Shite

Got what right? That the Iraqi forces are tinny?

The war isn't over yet, as well.

Re: Mogwai: Are Shite

No, Blair did not get it right.

There was no question whether the "allies" could successfully use military force to remove Saddam Hussein - none whatsoever. Liberation from the Ba'ath regime is undoubtedly a good thing, but don't forget the disgustingly negligent basis upon which the war was started. On this count Blair (and Bush) most definitely got it wrong. The motives that Bush/Blair based their warmongering on are extremely dubious - remember they changed their minds from "Saddam has WMD" to "we must liberate Iraqi's from this evil tyrant" when Blix et al couldn't find any WMD. The war was completely pre-meditated. Using the human-rights angle is so hypocritical it is laughable. Have you heard of the US dumping agrocheimcals on the jungles of Columbia to destroy drug crops, while at the same time they destroy food crops that sustain the country's inhabitants? If the US want to wage war on human rights they have a very long way to go - Tibet, Korea... I'm sure if these were oil producing countries action would be taken by the US, but they're not. Understand?

Defying the UN is also a huge long-term mistake. The whole point of the UN is that world issues are acted upon by a united and balanced world, not by one power-crazed nation. The US and the UK have no right to act as an agressive "world-police".

If you think this fight is over, you are probably very much mistaken.

Re: Mogwai: Are Shite

I accept that the war isn't over, except, perhaps, in terms of semantics: you could argue that the north forms part of the "law and order" problem.

It is also true that the justification for war has shifted. I seem to remember when Bush started talking about "regime change" the harbouring of terrorists formed part of the argument. Then, when he consented to attempts to go through the UN, WMD became the issue. And now, as you rightly point out, human rights issues have become more prominent. However, all along the essence of the argument has been that Saddam is an evil dictator who should not remain in power as a threat to Iraqis, and Iraqs neighbours (and, more fancifully, the rest of the world). It's more a shift of emphasis than of motive.

The most important issue now is to reconstruct some kind of international system that will safe-guard world order (and to reconstruct Iraq). I would have no problem with the US and UK acting as international policemen if thats what would happen. The worry is that the American government will use the "war against terrorism" purely to promote American interests, as the Reagan administration did in its 2nd Cold War. I don't believe this has happened yet, and i don't believe that the war was about oil... firstly, when they went to war the allies had no guarantee that the oil-fields wouldn't be torched, and i'm still amazed that they werent. Secondly, i find it very difficult to believe the costs of war, aid, and reconstruction would have justified war in the hope of access to the post-war oil reserves. And, thirdly, with so much talk of an oil fund for the Iraqi people, it doesnt look like the US (and definitely not the UK) will even come close to breaking even as a result of the war. The only way benefits will come is in the very long-run: stability and trade. To ensure this stability (still in the long-run) we need a moral international community - preferrably, but not necessarily, the UN - which can provide a framework to resolve disputes between nations.

In the shorter-term, with this war heading rapidly, it seems, towards a conclusion, the next steps have to be reconstructing Iraq, under an Iraqi interrim administration, and, of course, steps towards a resolution of the Israel-Palestine conflict (i.e. the eventual creation of an independent palestinian state).

Re: Mogwai: Are Shite

Absolutely. Someone made a very good point to me the today. They said that someone was trying to justify the war to them by using a Hitler=Hussein analogy. Insofar as they are both dictators who have commited massive human rights offences, the argument made against this is interesing. My friend likened Bush to Hitler in that both of them were "elected" to power in very dubious circumstances and both of them have carried out unprovoked invasions (obviously with very different motives). Laughable maybe, but interesting... Anyway, I know the following article is very long, but it's very good:

"This war was not worth a child's finger"

Victory in just three weeks, relatively few western casualties and now, at last, even dancing on the streets. So, asks Julian Barnes, did those of us who opposed the Iraq conflict get it wrong?

Friday April 11, 2003
The Guardian

So, peacenik, you lost. We told you so. Sure, it wasn't exactly the pushover we'd war-gamed. The Iraqis didn't rise in rebellion as we promised, the flower-throwing was a little tardy, but that was just because we'd underestimated how terrorised they were. Still, a three-week campaign with a couple of hundred coalition dead; the end approaches, and the Iraqis are dancing on fallen statues. Soon your fellow peaceniks can start trucking in the relief and nation-building can begin. May I hear a squeak of rejoicing?
So, warnik, you think you've won? Please consider this. On Monday afternoon your guys thought they had found Saddam in a restaurant. A US plane dropped four very clever 2,000lb bombs on it. The next night, BBC News showed an enormous crater and its correspondent said that no one who might have been there could have got out alive. According to Peter Arnett, the sacked NBC correspondent, the targeted restaurant was still intact, but three neighbouring houses were reduced to rubble instead. According to most people, Saddam escaped. When asked about this, Torie Clarke, the US defence spokeswoman, said crisply: "I don't think that matters very much. I'm not losing sleep trying to figure out if he was in there."

I don't know how much of the above paragraph - apart from Clarke's words, which I saw coming out of her mouth - is true. It probably approximates to some sort of truth, and it's possible that years down the line an accurate version might emerge: how good was the tip-off, how accurate was the bombing, how many were killed, and how many of those were civilians? But I know this: if I were Clarke, I would think I ought to lose a little sleep. If I were Clarke, I might wonder about my American home town, and how secure it might be from terrorist attack. Because if her words, in their brutal flippancy, seemed shocking to me, then imagine their effect on someone whose father, brother, sister, friend, acquaintance was killed in that raid. Would they say, "It was a sacrifice we are happy to accept, because after all, you were trying to kill Saddam Hussein"? No, I doubt they would react like that.

As the war began, like others I tried to imagine what the best result might be. A quick war with single-figure casualties and Saddam ousted painlessly? But that might mean Rumsfeld and co merely forcing their troops to Damascus and Tehran, centres of acknowledged recalcitrance and listed evil. A slow, horrible war with so many Anglo-American dead that leaders in both countries would realise that go-it-alone invasions, which look to neutrals like neo-imperialism, were simply not practicable. But that would mean wishing for the extinction of hundreds, maybe thousands of troops, and even more civilians. An unanswerable either-or. So, something in-between? Well, something in-between is what we're getting. Enough for some to call it a stunning professional victory, others a vile and unnecessary bloodbath.

But there's another tacit calculation going on. The war depends on domestic public support. Public support depends in part on disguising the reality of war (hence the hypocritical hoo-ha about the "parading" of prisoners) and on calculating the acceptability of death. So what would be the best way of scoring the game? Someone, somewhere, some Machiavellian focus-grouper or damage statistician, is probably doing just this. Let's start with the basic unit: one dead Iraqi soldier, score one point. Two for a dead Republican Guard, three for Special Republican Guard or fedayeen. And so on up to the top of the regime: 5,000, let's say, for Chemical Ali; 7,500 for each of Saddam's sons; 10,000 for the tyrant himself.

Now for the potentially demoralising downside. One Iraqi civilian killed: if male, lose five points, female 10, a child 20. One coalition soldier killed: deduct 50 points. And then, worst of all (as it underlines the futility and hazard of war), one coalition soldier killed by friendly fire: deduct 100 points. On the other hand, gain 1,000 for each incident which a couple of years down the line can give rise to a feel-good Hollywood movie: witness "Saving Private Lynch".

By this count, the war is a success. And television has more or less reflected the weighting of the above scoresheet: film a swaddled, bleeding, terrified child in hospital and airtime is guaranteed. With what blithe unconcern, too, it has disregarded the one-pointers. How have the Iraqi military been presented? a) as massively outgunned; b) as foolishly sallying forth in columns and making themselves easy meat for aerial attack (though the words "turkey shoot" have doubtless been sensitively banned); c) as experimental subjects for live testing of daisycutter bombs; d) as "fanatically loyal", ie still fighting when massively outgunned; e) as running away in their underpants.

The return of British bodies has been given full-scale TV coverage: the Union-Jacked coffin, the saluting Prince Andrew, the waggling kilts of soldiers escorting the hearse of their fallen comrades. Then each dead soldier's face comes up on screen, sometimes in a blurry home colour print, with listing of wife, fiancee, children: it thuds on the emotions. But Iraqi soldiers? They're just dead. The Guardian told us in useful detail how the British Army breaks bad news to families. What happens in Iraq? Who tells whom? Does news even get through? Do you just wait for your 18-year-old conscript son to come home or not to come home? Do you get the few bits that remain after he has been pulverised by our bold new armaments? There aren't many equivalences around in this war, but you can be sure that the equivalence of grief exists. Here come the widow-makers, goes the cry as our tanks advance. Here too come the unwitting recruiters for al-Qaida.

For all the coverage, I don't know what I've seen. Embedding journalists has certainly worked from the military point of view. This is not to disparage them, and they have taken proportionally much greater casualties than the military. But they can at best provide footage, which is not the same as telling us what is actually happening; for that they, and we, depend on official spokesmen. And journalists have to be approved. French television ran a documentary about journalists who had been refused approval, and thus access. British television lets us assume we are getting as much, and as pure, information as it is possible to give in the circumstances.

But in wartime we are even less able, and willing, than usual to see ourselves as others see us. For us, the war consists of coalition troops, Saddam, Iraqi troops, and Iraqi civilians; with bit-parts for the Kurds and Turkey. In the first days of the war I saw a report on French television news which told me - I think - that the US had closed down its embassy and cultural centre in Pakistan; I say "I think" because I never saw it confirmed here. Reaction from the wider Arab world has been sketchily covered, as if to say: let's pretend this is a localised struggle with no wider repercussions, and then it might be. A friend of mine, who works in television, quickly realised he wasn't getting the full picture and signed his household up for six months of al-Jazeera. Only when his wife asked where he'd been learning Arabic did he realise the flaw in his thinking. But his instinct was absolutely right.

As Baghdad falls to conventional warfare, I keep remembering that mantra in Jack Straw's mouth: "nuclear, chemical and biological." He repeated it again and again while trying to round up support. Then the "nuclear" had to go, after the UN inspection report. So it was down to the other two villains. Like some, I believed (no, "very much wanted to believe" is as close as you get in this world of claim and counterclaim) Scott Ritter's judgment that if the Iraqis still had some bad stuff, it was past its use-by date and turning into hair-gel. Even so, it seemed a grotesque gamble on Bush and Blair's part to seek to prove that Iraq had chemical and biological weapons by provoking Saddam to use them against coalition troops. Now we're told that the wily bastard has moved them to Syria. (Hey, let's invade Syria! Then he might move them to Iran. We could look there afterwards!)

The peacenik question before the war went like this: suppose Saddam destroys all his weapons tomorrow, do we still invade on humanitarian grounds? I can't imagine there would have been too many cries of, Yes please. But that, in retrospect, may be what we've done, or shall endeavour to claim we have done and therefore had been intending. Does it look like a humanitarian war to you? Are "shock and awe" compatible with "hearts and minds"? Early on, a US infantryman was seen grimly returning fire over a sand dune, then turning to camera and complaining: "They don't seem to realise we're here to help them." How odd that they didn't.

In the past three weeks, I've had emails from friends in different parts of the world. Almost without fail, they have expressed incredulity at our prime minister's position. "We can understand Bush, we see exactly where he's coming from, we aren't surprised by his gross limitations and gross ambitions. But what is your Blair up to? He seems a civilised, intelligent man. What does he think he's doing? And what on earth does he think he's getting out of it?" Oil? Reconstruction contracts? Hardly. As for what he thinks he's doing: it seems, I explain, to be a mixture of deluded idealism (finding a moral case for war where neither the Anglican bishops nor the Pope - moral experts he might acknowledge - can see one) and deluded pragmatism: he really does believe the military conquest of Iraq will reduce the likelihood of terrorism.

This is Blair's War; and as he reminded us, history will be his judge. But since we'll all be dead by the time history comes along, three key Blair moments should be pondered. The first came long before the war was mooted. The prime minister was asked in the House of Commons about Iraq and replied with a satisfied gleam: "Saddam is in his cage." At the time I merely noted the crudeness of the diction, which is why the phrase has stuck. What few of us realised at the time was that the self-appointed zookeepers were abrogating to themselves the right to shoot the beast.

Then the question of the second UN resolution. Do you remember being told that we wouldn't go to war without a second resolution? How quickly came the slippage. On the February 15 anti-war march, one of the talking-points was how Blair seemed to have shafted himself: if he didn't get a second resolution, he would have to choose between going back on his promise to the British people or going back on his friendship with Bush. Soon, we knew his choice, which led to a third key moment. When accused once too often of being Bush's poodle, Blair responded that, on the contrary, if Bush had proved timorous over Iraq, he, Blair, would have been pressing him harder to take action. Not a typical example of our "restraining influence".

Well, peacenik, are you happy now that peace is coming? No, because I don't think this war, as conceived and justified, was worth a child's finger. At least, are you happy that Saddam's rule is effectively over? Yes, of course, like everyone else. So, do you see some incompatibility here? Yes, but less than the incompatibilities in your position.

And in return, warnik, I have two questions for you. Do you honestly believe that the staggering bombardment of Iraq, televised live throughout the Arab world, has made Britain, America, and the home town of Torie Clarke, safer from the threat of terrorism? And if so, let me remind you of another statement by your war leader, Mr Blair. He told us, in full seriousness, that once Saddam was eliminated, it would be necessary to "deal with" North Korea. Are you getting hot for the next one - the humanitarian attack on Pyongyang?
©Julian Barnes 2003



Re: Mogwai: Are Shite

It is a good article, and much appreciated....

most of what passed for a debate about the war was basically "Saddam is bad" versus "war is bad". So far as i can tell the "harbouring terrorists" and "weapons of mass destruction" arguments were never really the real motives (altho WMD is still what the "allies" are, even now, sticking too)...even less convincing were the anti-american points regarding access to oil, and, most wooly of all, the "why now?" conspiracy theories.

The article highlights the contradictions on both sides....i do think even this excellent article is overcritical of Blair...but entertainingly written all the same.

Re: Mogwai: Are Shite

Much as I've hated the idea of what has happened, you can only really concern yourself with the here and now... and the descent into anarchy in the 'liberated' Iraq is both scary and sickening... everyone (including themselves) knows that the US army is AWFUL at restoring and maintaining civilian law and order/peacekeeping... and previously they've left it to us, other European armies, the Russians, or more local arab armies. It is noticeable that there is a much better situation in the 'liberated' Basra than Baghdad etc. Unfortunately, there are not enough troops in the British army to unilaterally peacekeep the whole of the country, and we've estranged all the other people who are experienced/good at it... one wonders what happens next??? DO the US have to learn a whole modus operandii that's so far proved beyond them, or will the estranged UN take the risk of legitimising the war by undertaking the task under it's umbrella? This for me is the burning issue of NOW.

Re: Mogwai: Are Shite

we won, they lost, who's next?

sucks to be a loser

ollie.

Re: Mogwai: Are Shite

Who's next ??

What is this ? Some sort of competition ? You obviously have no compassion for the loss of human life, especially those of innocent civilians and children. Civilians and children who have no idea what is going on around them in order to fulfill the wishes of grown US and UK politicians who have no idea what circumstances these people have had to live in, and what terror they have had to witness whilst we have stood by as a sanction imposing nation for 12 years. This isn't rock and roll, this is bad sh*t and your stand by and laugh attitude is quite distressing. Have you not seen the images on your TV screen ? Does it not affect you in any way, the sight of the blood soaked innocents who have been "liberated" by the very people that fuelled "their" dictator with weapons and support for so many years ? Go and watch nickleodeon and listen to some Blur albums, it sounds like your thing.

George


Re: Mogwai: Are Shite

so my options are what? tv or tv?

I'd rather stand by and laugh (which I'm not) than stand by and cry (mentioning no names)

but really, who is next?

ollie.

Re: Mogwai: Are Shite

I don't know. Could be many.

Mr Rumsfield has done his countries reputation the world of good by firstly accusing Syria of arming Iraq, and then accusing them of helping members of Saddams family / Saddam cross their border. Why would they do this ? May be because they do have, and i quote, "scraps of inteligence", or may be they don't and the propoganda machine has started on the next country in line.

May be in the next week we will here from the Pentagon that all of sudden they have scraps of info stating that Iraq has passed their weapons over to Iran (and thats why we couldn't find them !!!!) and may be it'll be them. Pure speculation I admit.

It's irrelevant really, the "next" agenda should be the complete, fair and Iraqi representative rebuilding of Iraq, and then a palestinian state.

George.

Re: Mogwai: Are Shite

pure speculation and the fact that Syria loves Iraq, and Iran hate them, but hey, facts aren't the thing here are they?

and as for Palestine, i think you'll find it was re-named 'Israel' some 55 years ago

ollie.

Mogwai: Hate World Leaders

Um, chemikal underground? Are you sure? Theres no mention of that on their website.

Re: Mogwai: Hate World Leaders

nor is there on RockAction, so what do you think?

ollie.

Mogwai: Hate World Leaders

No, Blair did not get it right.

There was no question whether the "allies" could successfully use military force to remove Saddam Hussein - none whatsoever. Liberation from the Ba'ath regime is undoubtedly a good thing, but don't forget the disgustingly negligent basis upon which the war was started. On this count Blair (and Bush) most definitely got it wrong. The motives that Bush/Blair based their warmongering on are extremely dubious - remember they changed their minds from "Saddam has WMD" to "we must liberate Iraqi's from this evil tyrant" when Blix et al couldn't find any WMD. The war was completely pre-meditated. Using the human-rights angle is so hypocritical it is laughable. Have you heard of the US dumping agrocheimcals on the jungles of Columbia to destroy drug crops, while at the same time they destroy food crops that sustain the country's inhabitants? If the US want to wage war on human rights they have a very long way to go - Tibet, Korea... I'm sure if these were oil producing countries action would be taken by the US, but they're not. Understand?

Defying the UN is also a huge long-term mistake. The whole point of the UN is that world issues are acted upon by a united and balanced world, not by one power-crazed nation. The US and the UK have no right to act as an agressive "world-police".

If you think this fight is over, you are probably very much mistaken.




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