Despite public perceptions, I'll bet Courtney's pretty fiercely passionate about doing the best for her daughter. I kind of wish these kind of details weren't in the public eye, and if the authorities judge slebs on substantive issues by what they've read in the hugely prejudicial press then they degrade themselves into the executive arm of the National Enquirer. I don't know how it is nowadays, but it seems a little too easy to get locked up in a psychiatric institution on t'other side of the pond. At least her kid hasn't been taken into care.

I have been a big fan of Courtney for a long time and I figure if she can come out on top of the things she has already been through she can certainly come out on top of this.

Call me hard, but I have less sympathy. It seems to me (and correct me if I'm wrong) that Courtney's pretty open about her drug use - if it was was Joe Public the kid would have been taken away long ago.
The kid's already lost her father, she needs some stability from her remaining parent and at the moment she doesn't appear to be getting that.

lets look at this way, a 40 something widow witha history of drug abuse and failed relationships, busted for breaking into houses? without her $$$ she would've lost the kid at birth - possibly sooner.

it's none of our business. when i say that i mean that we shouldn't know these things. they shouldn't be reported. it's not fair on an 11 year old girl. erm, we don't really need to know about it do we? our lives aren't changed from knowing it. we'll feel something for a few minutes, and then most likely forget about it. it's unnecessary. leave them alone.

ahh but if she had no '$$$' would she have had her child taken away? think about how many people abuse drugs, burgle houses, ave failed relationships and still have children with them. i know for certain the girl opposite me is a crack head, steals stuff and still has her kid. and where is her partner? and yea, unnecessary.

hey, any of you grow up in the care of an alcholic or drug addicted parent? yeah well i did and i'd say at the age of 11 a young girl really needs a strong, positive role model that she can count on some consistency from. frances is entering the period of her life where she will need to make some really big decisions about who she is going to be. when you're a kid, the fact that your mom is a "rock star" (which let's face it courtney hasn't been for years, not a productive one anyway) or your mom is "cool" doesn't count for shit. i'm not sure if wendy o'connor is the best person to provide a stable homelife either, but certainly frances should be allowed to experience her teenage years in a stable and somewhat 'normal' environment.

I guess I just want to through this out there to the masses, that drug abuse is rampent out here in California (and plenty other places for that matter) but out here in the Golden State you can't *PAY* to have a drug addict convicted and have their children removed from a dangerous home environment. Here you have an 11 year child who is afforded luxery upon luxery, million dollar estates and all, where is the danger again?? Is it the fact that her mother is an on again drug addict (aren't they all??), that's the way it goes the moment you become addicted, life IS a series of relapse, recovery, and withdrawl. So did we not know this when she had the child?? Yes, we did...and let's all bare in mind this is a multi-million dollar lifestyle this child leads. How much pride can the state take in making a public example of Courtney, and Frances when there are children in REAL drug abusive homes that can't get the time of day from CPS...and who am I to say, I AM a concerned family member of 3 young children of two heroin addicts. I have been there and I've seen the whole nine for the last 20 yrs. of my life, try as I may the system will not and does not provide for you if you are like 85% of the country at the poverty line. Which brings me to my conclusion, the powers that be..who ever 'they' are for arguments sake can get on there moral high horse and ride off into the sunset on this one because there is no real victory...California, America should take a look at the problems at hand and help those at the bottom of the barrel instead of taking the PHOTO OP/Publicity circus and chastizing one individual here...there are so many others out there who Really,Really need the help. Not some hieress to millions whose mother went into relapse in Beverly Hills while the nanny stood by holding everyone's hand. I know there will be nay sayers, and we all know how helpful they are in situations like these, so the government can pat themselves on the back everytime they pull a rich little girl out of her mansion because mommy had to many pills, and I'm sure all the kids in section 8 apartments with no furniture and junkies for parents will laugh the hardest. Satryically...

No, I'm not an idiot, I just call it how it is. That BOTHERS most people because to most people, thr TRUTH hurts. I don't care WHAT the hell she overdosed on, wether it was hard drugs or painkillers she still made a SCENE and got herself in court. The court declared her an unfit mother. HELLO ??????? That's the point, not beating around the bush trying to prove to me that she didn't do "hard" drugs. I don't CARE. The point is that Frances only has one parent left, so the least she could do is keep off of drugs of ALL kinds for the sake of her daughter, cause all this court shit is no good for Frances. My mother didn't do hard drugs, she did something that's not even CONSIDERED a drugs, she drank and that hurt me as a child more than anyone will ever know. Just like I wanted someone stable as a mother who loved me enough to stay OFF drugs, I'm sure Frances wants the same damn thing. That's the point, so if you want to call someone an idiot, you should call YOURSELF an idiot because I'm here trying to stick up for Frances and you're here studdering about ridiculous shit like hard drugs vs painkillers and accusing people of hating women. I AM a god damn woman, so stop trying to drown the REAL issue in your weird little fantasies that everyone hates women. Playing the feminist card is SO old.

While you may or may not be an idiot, you clearly can't read. I didn't say you hated women, I was making a general comment that people who dislike Courtney nearly always purvey rumours CREATED BY people who have some personal issue with her or hate women. If that was a loosely disguised playing of the "feminist card" (oh, the humanity), then I make no apologies.

If you honestly believe people treat Courtney the way they do just because of her personality, you are grossly deluding yourself. Think of it like this; unless you are severely boring and only like bands like Travis and Coldplay, there are likely to be several alcoholic and/or drug-users amongst your favourite male rock stars. Now isolate the single parents from that group.

You probably won't be able to because no one ever discusses men and their parenting skills. That doesn't mean it isn't taking place. Of course it is. But do you ever hear about any rich male rock stars having difficulties gaining custody of their kids? NO. Absolutely not, because society judges them differently to women.

Conversely, I can name several female stars who have been stripped of their families and status for doing nothing more than making being as ambitious or confrontational as their male counterparts. Look at Kristin Hersh - she suffers from hallucinations, but has never EVER done any harm to anyone. She lost custody of her first child simply because the courts didn't like the fact that she was a working mother. Now she doesn't tour very much, the courts are happy to let her get on with motherhood.

It's no full-blown conspiracy theory, it's simply the way our society works.

As far as Courtney is concerned, you have already ruined your momentum by agreeing with someone who petulantly slagged her off (and I quote):

"hahahah lost yer daugter shouldnt be such a fuck up wankness... she cant play guitar and is only remotely attractive cos shes had sooooooooo much surgery"

This clearly means you are dislike her personally and therefore negates any 'unbiased opinions' about her. Which is fair enough, but you continually try to use that card.

As far as we're concerned, Courtney does not use hard drugs and has not for 10 years. You condemn her for the legitimate use of anti-depressants. Just because of one overdose in ten years, you think her child should be taken away from her. Yes, I agree, what Courtney did was wrong. But my mum suffered from severe depression after my dad died when I was 12. She has since been in and out of hospital for upto 6 months at a time, and when out she has often been on crippling quantities of medication to keep her well. I agree, it's not nice, but I wouldn't have chosen to be denied access to her when I was being looked after by my brother or family and/or at boarding school.

I apologise for getting so personal, but I strongly believe in what I'm saying. Is my situation not worse than that of a child with a working mother who has taken one overdose in the 11 years since she was born? Frances has nannies, as well as Kurt's mum and sister, to look after her when Courtney is working. She lives in a beautiful house with every need taken care of and access to her mum probably more often than anyone else with a working mother. Courtney does not spend much time on tour, she works on films near her LA home and often takes Frances on trips around the world with her.

I'm sorry you had a shit time growing up. Life sucks, etc. It doesn't mean we all need to be the next Fred Durst. And you're right; the truth does hurt.

tom.x

Blah blah fucking blah. All those "words" typed and not much really said. Whatever dude. Fred fucking Durst ? Now I'm starting to wonder who's on drugs. There's just some people who aren't worth talking too, and you're god damn one of them. "Hi I'm some kind of pretend intellectual, listen to me rant and rave." Well NO I fucking won't. I'm clearly right, and you're clearly wrong. I'm sticking up for a child who I feel for, and you're pretending you're smart and pretending that someone abusing pain killers is the same as someone on Paxil. Pretend away, I'm finished with you.

Tom is right on about what he's saying and I think he kicked Opal's ass here, no question. It's so obvious and hypocritical the way Courtney's paying for what every other rock star does and worse. Some people seem to think feminism is a dirty word, but feminism is a response to real hatred towards women from the larger culture. No one thinks black civil rights isn't a real issue, but somehow when when anyone mentions the sexism that exists not only in our culture, but in many parts of the world, they're having "weird fantasies." And it's strange, but we live in a country that is so open about it's sexism, too. Could someone win a grammy talking about killing, or raping Black people and using the n--- word while they're doing it? Well, you can win a grammy talking about violence and rape towards women (which is an actual real, nationwide problem - not a "fantasy") as revenge for personal vendettas, all while calling women cunts, bitches and whores. And people find Courtney Love disturbing? Odd. I think the "feminist card" will start being "old" when rape and violence towards women doesn't exist. When people don't expect women to be these domesticated, tame little well-trained women who don't think for themselves and accept any abuse from individuals, or the culture at large without fighting back. That's why people really hate Courtney - she always fights back. She's really aggressive and wild - the opposite of domesticated. And she's the only one who has the fucking guts (besides Tom here - love to you Tom!) to talk about it, ever since feminism became so unfashionable (was it ever fashionable?)

As for the drugs, I don't think the court has a right to take a child away for that alone. I grew up in an alcoholic family and I think 3/4 of america has some sort of substance abuse problem at this point. Unless you are neglecting your child (depriving him/her of basic physical and emotional needs) or physically abusing your child, I don't think the government should have any say. Also, I don't think it's cold-hearted to think of Courtney as well as her child. Mothers are people too, and suffer from imperfections. It's actually the true definition of love to realize that, and to love people and wish them well anyway. I have no doubt that Courtney loves her child fiercly and does the best she can for her. My father (the aforementioned alcoholic) knew he was hurting our family a lot and he tried to quit drinking several times because he knew it was tearing us apart. He couldn't do it. He's 70 now and still is a hard drinker. Does that mean he's a terrible person? We should write him off? He shouldn't have raised us? We love him anyway, because we know that he was what he was. He caused us pain, but he brought us a lot of value, too. He worked hard his whole life to support us, he gave us what he could. Who is some government agency to tell me that my father wasn't worthy? Who are they to say that Courtney isn't? These people that are so eager to jump on the Courtney-hating wagon and condemn her, should get off their self-righteous, high-horse. Because someday they might find themselves in need of forgiveness, or understanding for something, and find it isn't there for them, either.

In conclusion, I love Courtney because she dares to be what other women so often aren't allowed to be - wild, powerful, intelligent, confrontational, a bit crazy and _interesting_. I hope her album succeeds, I hope she gets her child back. And I hope she keeps fucking shit up wherever she goes. We need her, if only for that.

Whoa, some anger from Opal. First of all, I never said Courtney was perfect, that's my whole point. I love her anyway - probably more - because she isn't perfect. I never said she was putting her child first, either (what I actually said, was that she loves her child fiercly, and I'd bet my hands that she does.) I think she probably _wants_ to put her child first, though, but if you know anything at all about addicts, you know that they _can't_ always make good decisions, that they _can't_ always do the right thing. That's what I was trying to convey with the story about my father. Read it again and see if you can pick that up.

If you think feminism is such bullshit and you really are as angry at the men who do it as well, maybe you should be looking to start ranting on a lot of male rock star boards about _their_ drug habits, and _their_ children. You like Sharon Osbourne? She stayed with a man who had a lot of substance abuse problems, bit the heads off of small animals and once tried to _kill_ her. I imagine that was a pretty bad environment for children. I heard she's been being pretty self-righteous about the Courtney thing, too. Ironic. I don't have anything against Sharon, and I'm not saying that all these people even need to be angels, but I definitely think Courtney is being singled out for retribution for what _so_ many people in the world (certainly the rock world) do. And you're right, Courtney can be a bitch, I know she can be ruthless occasionally, and hungry for fame and attention. But you know what? She can also be warm and gossipy, and funny and generous. People aren't either all "good" or "evil." (Though, it seems women are expected to be.)

Also, for every angry person that trashes Courtney like Grohl (duh, I wonder why that was? Maybe because they were having a dispute in court?) there is someone who loves her and defends her. Edward Norton took out a full page ad in the New Yorker defending her. You can read it, if you Google "Ed Norton Springs to Love's Defense." (In it he mentions the sexism that seem to effect people's judgement of Courtney - yet another deluded feminist statement.) Woody Harrelson spoke warmly of her in the E! True Hollywood Story, as did the director she worked with on Larry Flint, as well as old friends she worked with. I've heard Shirley Manson from Garbage send some love her way more than once. Hell, even that guy from Metallica said he dug her music and thought she had "balls of steel." You just rarely hear about this shit because people are determined to hate Courtney. That's why I always make a point of remembering and mentioning it. Oh yeah, her husband once took the time to write a whole missive in the liner notes to Insecticide: "My wife challenges injustice and the reason her character has been so severely attacked is because she chooses not to function the way the white corporate man insists. His rules for women involve her being submissive, quiet, and non-challenging. When she doesn't follow his rules, the threatened man (who, incidentally, owns an army of devoted traitor women) gets scared."

Yet another crazy statement from a feminist man, it seems, who is imagining it all and "has issues." Maybe you're one of those "traitor women" he's speaking of. Or maybe you're just not aware of some other people's point of view, or whatever, I don't know. You tell me. Because if you're out there passionately attacking every rock star who has drug problems and children then my apologies. But I'd wager, you're not.

Those women that aren't "submissive, quiet, and non-challenging" by the way, are always accused of not being "nice" and being "selfish." Like you clearly are accusing Courtney of. Which is a way of guilting them into being the above. If you're looking for Mother Theresa you probably won't find it in a the music world. And I sure fucking hope not! I don't want even our rock stars to be fucking domesticated for christ' sake! Nice people are sometimes awesome, but we already have to many "nice" women. We need some wildness and a "bitchiness" or we're in danger of going bland.

Look, I have nothing against you, I think you have some courage to defend children, and you obviously care, but I also think you're missing out on the fact that Courtney is a person that deserves some fucking compassion, too. I can see where you're coming from with Frances, and believe me, if I thought that Courtney was physically or sexually abusing her child, or neglecting her basic needs, I'd be right on board with you all the way. I just don't think that the drugs are going to traumatize that child enough that it constitutes abuse. Speaking as a person that grew up in a disfunctional home, it would've devastated me more, to be taken away from my family, than to stay in my crazy white trash environment. We need our parents no matter how many fucked-up problems they have. (Excluding obvious abusive situations.) And they also need _us_.

The coolest thing you said here was you can be wild, powerful and nice too. I agree, and I love those kind of people. I just like people who are wild, powerful and dark, too. I like the Beatles _and_ Jim Morrison. And Courtney Love goddamnit!

Can this girl(?) OpAL even get a one liner out without cussing herself to satisfaction? So I'll make this real simple, in case she can't read all those big fancy intellectual words...look little girl no cursing either (because I know you read each and every reply)
Dope-al or what ever the hell your name is, the BIGGEST problem with your reply is that you are the most uneducated person on this board dear, are you banging your bitter little fists on the ground and kicking too while you scream and type??? You little UNeducated bastard! If you had taken one, ONE! jr. college level of english you'de know how to prove a point, get everyone else on your side and make the other wank seem like the poor stupid bastard.....BUT...ya don't! So don't get on the post telling people your just another stupid cunt with a PC and a dirty mouth...you shame feminism, and it shows! Buy an english book, and use your sorry little narrow view of life to prove a point next time.I'm sure you'll be able to jerk off one last time knowing someone acknowledged your forgotten sorry self...mmmkay! Let's not make your next Oh so predictable reply too dirty..k! By the way I'm sure you won't be getting too much attention here at this message board anymore

I don't speak to get attention, I speak to make my opinion known and to irritate anti-truth people like yourself. And I have that right as this is a free country that promotes free speech. If I wanted "attention" from the people on this message board, I'd lie and say I thought Courtney was a perfect human being so that everyone would compliment me left right and center for my "good taste". Fuck you, I don't want your attention.
It's so funny that I curse and I'M a bitch, but Courtney curses and SHE'S a goddess. A bit fucking hypocritical. You're no less nastier than I am, so who the hell are YOU to talk ? YEAH I FUCKING cursed but atleast I talked about other things like caring for children. You didn't even HAVE a fucking point, all you were able to do was redundantly insult me. Nice little attempt at thinking you got me all figured out by saying that my father fucked me. You're obviously an ignorant whore with no feelings if your'e joking about fathers fucking their daughters. That's actually happening as we speak, it's not a dam joke. You're pure fucking evil when you make light of something like that. But apparently that's all you fucking got. Cause god knows you couldn't dispute a dam thing I said. I said I cared about a baby who's mother was doing heroine while she was prgnant and I'M the fucking devil. Well you can BURN BLACK. You only replied like 80 times to the 3 times I wrote. A little obsessed are we ? I think YOU'RE the one who wants attention. I know what people like you are all about, you don't want to REASON because you're not interested in the real issue at ALL. You just want to exchange insults and I'm not feeding your evil and keeping that fucking fire burning forever. I talk to people who TALK, not spit venom because they HAVE no fucking real points to make. Atleast Heidi acknowledged that I had a point when I said I cared about children. She's fucking wrong about me hating Courtney just because of the media, I think the media is evil, but that's besides the point. Atleast Heidi was normal and open-minded. But as for you you dumb fuck, I feel so ridiculous even repsonding to you right now because you're such a waste of time. But since this will be my last little visit here I had to have the last word. I'm not playing fucking games and wasting my time arguing with a cow who can't even talk about the issue, only rip into someone. What the hell's the point ? That's exactly what you want and you're not fucking getting it. You're so pathetically childish that you're even making fun of my NAME, think about how much of a mental case you are. That is if you can put your voodoo doll down for long enough you satanic harpy. I know you're chomping at the bit to respond to me 900 times with your little barade of insults. Hey I'll even help you out, I'll tell you my last name so you can make fun of that too. McAdams. There, knock yourself out your weirdo. Good fucking riddance.