Having done a lot of charity work, usually in very mixed areas of London I've noticed that the minoroties of England really do hate each other.
I spoke to a Chinese women in Woolwhich and she said she wouldn't donate any money if it would go to blacks or muslims. I said, "YOU LIVE IN WOOLWHICH". To which she replied, "Yes, it is a pain".
Working in a soup kitchen after the July bominbs these Black guys tried to stop a homeless North African guy from getting in, (he wasn't even a Muslim!).
I bring this up beacause I just bought a Chicken Tikka Roll at the best Balti house in West London. YUM! And some black kids were mucking around out side and these North Indian or Pakistani (I think Muslim) guys behind the counter just went off on one, saying some really horrible things I don't want to repeat.
I often think this gets seriously overlooked. I know there are many many white racists but I can understand them. They think this is their country and don't want foreigners in it. I think they're total cunts but I can get my head around it.
People not born in England make up 7% of the population now and there are many second or third genration Britians. If they got along with each other and spoke with one voice their fight for equality with the rest of the country would improve by leaps and bounds.
I should have said that but instead I juke ate my Chicken Tikka Roll (the best in West London) and went home.
Rant Over?
or is it over?
the part of town i'm in is very white, so i don't know many 'minorities'.
it seems a shame as it'd be great if we could all get along...
i have heard simialr reports
near where i live, pakistanis and bangladeshis fucking HATE each other. i'm not sure if it gets violent between them, but it can be pretty LOLsome to hear two pakistanis on the bus going:
"you a deshi"
"no, YOU a deshi"
"hurhurhur"
I agree in a sense
In Acton, the cafe where I spend some time, the Romanians there get treated very badly by a group of black people that come in. Then again that is one group of people, I could hardly say it was representative.
I think a lot of people feel intimidated by walking down what has come to be called 'mali lane' in Acton. It is understandable in a sense, since a lot of somalians hang outside the shops and one could feel threatened. Perhaps this (and other situations) is where the 'everyone-against-the-somalis' thing has sprung from, on the microcosm of acton that is. Also because they are the newest immigrant influx in the area.
I think maybe you are in danger of classing everyone who is not white british in one category. There will be tensions between them I suppose because people choose to identify and divide themselves on racial grounds.
i went through acton yesterday
how irrelevant to this thread. how come east, north and west acton get tube stops, but not south acton? south acton = rubbish?
ACTON SOUTH
SHUT YO MOUTH.
Acton south is too ghetto
I like in though. I like the Talbot, the beer garden is a joke. It is two benchs outside the front on the kerb with a weed/shrub. But people still refer to it as the beergarden...
Talbot, when I was 16.
Good times.
What's wrong with you all?
It's spelt, and pronounced, 'Action'.
urm
WRONG. its got an invisible silent 'cr' before the popular used bit.
Eh?
no.
thats is wrong.
haha, ok
not very irrlevant
as said Balit house is called: The Acton Balti House.
A lot of it
is born out of the fact that many ethnic minorities often live in poor communities where there are high crime rates. Some of this is due to the fact that poor housing areas often have a large turnover of people as people strive to move out of these areas as quickly as possible, and new immigrant groups move in. There is not much sense of community and so social bonds are not formed as easily in these areas. People from minorities will clash with other people from minorities, perhaps due to crime or anti-social behaviour arising, and wanting to blame other ethnic groups. See the Chicago School of Sociology from 1930's:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_school_%28sociology%29
Disclaimer: This may not explain all clashes between ethnic minorities but can help to understand.
I did think this might be a factor.
Chicken Tikka Rolls?
howthewot?!?!
Most non-Somalian black people dislike their Somalian counterparts for reasons unclear to me.
nann bread.
Chicken Tikka.
Salad.
Mint Sauce.
Chilli Sauce.
Its a Balti Keebab but tastier and less phattening.
isnt 7%
the nonwhite proportion?
also, doesnt it come from political differences between the races in question, like india and pakistan politically not liking eachother?
i dunno. im pretty uninformed and useless.
hah
this reminds me of an asian taxi driver who picked some me and some friends up recently.
he got a call from some chinese people who wanted a lift &he was having trouble hearing them. (you know, neither of them talking in their espective native tongues, it got a it confusing)
&he eventually hung up & slurred back to us, barely comprehensibley -
'facking chinese. i don't understand a facking word they saying!'
to which we all laughed heartily, at the sweet sweet irony.
good times.
there is a big difference between
hate and racism.
this thread is gonna be a big one.
bungala
hell, i wasn't really making much of a ppoint, racism hardly concerns me. this post just reminded me somewhat.
though i can't see that large a difference between racial hatred and racism. i guess i'll have to look it up!
i've started it too late.
I get alcxxk point. But I don't see the merit in hating someone because their people in another country are fighting their own people. Why transfer the fight?
That's cultural transmission
steeped in tradition which may not make common sense, but if that's what you've been taught, that's what you'll subscribe to.
transferring the fight
is a really stupid attitude but it's what a lot of people do. I think part of it might be that in a society where a minority is outnumbered, they feel a greater sense of pride for their nationality than people of English origin would, and can express this in an aggressive way towards other minorities.
As someone of Indian origin who's lived here all my life, the only racial abuse I can ever remember receiving is from Pakistanis. India-Pakistan relations are a special case of course though.
There's a kenyan guy in my science
class who HATES somalians. He said there should be a genocide against all somalians...
people
in general
really are just fucking idiots
I used to think people=shit
Now I realise people are just different.
Is that the new
Sandi Thom single?
x
it is true
don't know about MORE racist, but minorities groups are definitely on a par with whites as far as racism goes. at least around here where there is virtually zero integration between different ethnic communities.
hmm
I used to work for an Indian guy who had a shop in Covent Garden and he absolutely hated Nigerians for some reason - refused to let them in the place and ordered me to keep them out too (yeah right)
He was also insistant that ALL South Americans are shoplifters
weirdo he was...
REACTIONARY
Everybody should go back to where they came from. The primordial ooze.
Also, a lot of hatred is a result of western imperialism.
Yeah.
Its definately the West's fault, I agree.
I know you're being sarcastic, but I'll dignify you with a response
Yes, it is largely the wests fault.
Example: ever seen a map of Africa? It's all straight lines, the borders don't follow natural boundaries like with most countries. That's because colonial Britain saw fit to carve the continent up according to their whims, cutting right through tribes and causeing all sorts of problems.
And don't even get me started on the Indian subcontinent.
I don't think he was being sarcastic...
It's clearly the West's fault!
I've never met a racist person who wasn't white
but then I've met precious few people who aren't white.
Good Thread
There was a report in The Times the other week about how a lot of the Polish migrants have some of the most intolerant attitudes of all immigrants. Racism towards black and Asians is common, presumably because there aren't large populations of blacks and Asians in Poland itself.
Minority rivalry was also of course clearly evident in the Birmingham race riots last Autumn when I believe black and Asian gangs fought out pitched battles. London though of course does appear to a non-Londoner such as myself to be remarkably quiet on this front.
I think you're missing freak's point. We foreign savages should stop fighting among ourselves if we want the moral authority to accuse white people of racism. Right?
Je ne comprends pas
Parlez-vous anglais?
Your syntax is mangled like a deer under a jeep.
mmm
you do have a vague point. One could interpret it like that.
I think Wiggles makes an interesting point.
I agree to with some extent with Wiggles
but I think Hollywood Freak's rant is borne out of a slightly naive utopian dream of everyone loving each other and getting along, rather than from trying to win any moral high ground against those infernal white racists.
I can't speak for other areas,
but race hate crime seems more often to be committed by white people round here. I think it's a decent sentiment to want everyone to get along. But there are religious and cultural divides that go back thousands of years that I can't begin to try to understand (and would not want to make assumptions about). One thing I do know is that your average BNP fascist is just an idiot with a huge chip on his shoulder and, more often than not, a penchant for violence...
but this
thread is not about white racists or the BNP...
It has a rather strong link, though, does it not?
I agree that it's terrible that there are such levels of racism amongst minorities. However, when one considers the relatively small amount of ethnic minority-members in the UK, the high level of racism from white people becomes all the more disturbing.
there are racists
among all minorities bobby mate....dont start feeling uncomfortable because we are talking about someone being racist other than the white man. the most racism i experience in a working day isnt from a white person let me tell you
I'm not disputing that.
Racism in any form is a disgrace. I'm just saying that racism against minorities coming from a HUGELY dominant white majority is more of a problem. I guess I'm responding to the title of the thread.
I also agree
that it's a decent sentiment to want people to get along too, and fully endorse it. However, it is slightly naive to think it could happen, not only for the reasons you state above about cultural history, but also economics, class structure, human nature, ignorance all make it impossible. A lot of white racism is borne out of the proles' oppression and resentement of the middle classes' dominance in society. This is often tied in with economics too. Whilst racism is ridiculous and stupid, it is often a result of people trying to cope with their place in society.
Oh absolutely.
But it's "coping" in completely the wrong way.
lol.
'more often than not, a penchant for violence...'
Living in Burnley, Bobby, I know absolutely loads of BNP voters. Most of them are elderly women who offer you sweeties and go to church.
I'll agree though to a certain extent. You do get the neo-nazis at the erm... 'fairs'.
You know what I mean!
Don't start winding me up again! :]
I think it has to do
with the fact of an old 'foreign' community is afraid of seing a new 'foreign' community. 2/3 years ago there was a big hate for the newly install chinese community. Black and north-africans were really mean ( insults, fights )with them because they had just settled and found jobs. Now it seemed to go far better.
It seems like the fear that the new community could have it easier or might change the status quo in difficult areas, is important.
'if
we want the moral authority to accuse white people of racism'
is it an authority you really cherish then?
I've Just Got Wiggles's Point
Heat does not produce clear thinking on my behalf.
Sorry Wiggles, your syntax isn't like a mangled deer.
Lyle I agree.
.
human being are programmed to look for differences in each other...I reckon kids are fucking experts at that. When I was five I got insane levels of racial abuse at school considering I'm not even that foreign
Add that to the fact I reckon something like 70% of the population are too fucking stupid to KNOW how to be nice, and think sensitive and nice is 'gay' or something, and therein lieth the root of the problem
Might this lady's statement
also have something to do with the fact that she hasn't becoming fully accustomed to the English way of trying to disguise and hide your prejudices?
It's called "tolerance".
I think it's healthy to hide unpleasant, destructive prejudices! Of course everyone's a little bit prejudiced about something or other, but why make a song and dance about it?
having been to
a lot of countries and known a lot of people from different places and backgrounds.....the UK is pretty good where racism is concerned i would say. only an ignorant thicko of whatever race would shout about their racial opinions
Its not about "shouting" about your racist opinions
Its just that its easy to have a liberal attitude when it doesn't have to be tested.
A big part of the problem is that
these ignorant thickos like to do just that!
Well it can make life a little easier
for the individual
BobbyGrindrod hates rockers
with their leather and their unsubtle american idolising ways.
well i work
with a black girl who openly says she hates asian people....i also work with a sikh guy that hates muslims and thats all he basically harps on about.....and there are indian guys in my gym that dont like pakistani people
I am not trying to imply
anything personal to you by the way
Its just that
the utopian view of race relations that is so often expressed just smacks of self-deceit. I have come across so many white middle-class liberal-minded London types that can easily say how we should all get along, and yet they can quite easily isolate themselves within the comfort zone of their four walls, or the workplace that is made of up predominantly white-middle class individuals like themselves and therefore never have to act on any of their so-called wishes. When I used to live in North London (Tufnell Park), you would see the same old crossing the street, or rustling of the curtains whenever a young black male was approaching-and I know this because this would happen whenever two of my Ghanaian friends would pop over. These white middle-class people would never be deemed racist by the majority, and yet these people who espouse the utopian dream.
It's different though
Fear is different from hate and I'd say outright hate is a lot worse.
Well the only difference between fear and hate
is that in the former case the will is suppressed and, in the other, the will is engaged. So no, I wouldnt draw too great a distinction between the two.
apart from what fear and hate are
And the issue of "crossing the street" is a lot more to do with class than race
how exactly?
If you say for instance a "chav"
you will cross the street. As a firm, but mainly true, generalisation most black people are lower class and if they aren't it usually shows.
see*
there are too many assumptions in that statement
for me to even begin.
begin
ugh
well I'm not entirely sure you could determine somebody's class by the way the dress. And your statement that it "usually shows" is a bit unnerving-how exactly?
ugh
maybe I should have said culture. Clothes and stuff. Tracksuits.
Sorry for the ugh. I'm in an internet cafe
and my money is being eaten by this conversation. The thing is, so many of my friends would be exceptions to that "rule" i.e tracksuit wearing, commercial hip-hop listening, middle-class and black. So yeah, its a bit of an assumption.
I suppose it is an assumption
but it will be more that they dress like that than the colour of their skin (I imagine).
I go to possibly the most middle class school in the world and many people in my school I would avoid in the street because of the way they dress.
That's undeniably prejudiced against people but it isn't unreasonable. I've been walking through my lovely estate with semi-detached houses lining the streets and not crossing the road when i've seen people I don't like the look of has got me in some very awkward situations
I agree -
lots of people will say cliche after cliche - "I'm not racist, BUT..." being the favourite. I think this is apalling, and frankly (apologies, but I genuinely believe this) it's an identical mindset to the one that would say they don't have a problem with gay people but argue that using "gay" as a derogatory term is acceptable.