Don't star it out.
Either use swear words or don't. I love swear words. Don't constrain them, don't disfigure their faces. Enjoy them don't disguise them.
On a more useful note, it is a shame how little change actually occured.
I don't entirely blame Geldolf for Live 8's failure. It was partly his fault but he had the best intentions.
The problem is that, after Geldolf got involved then the newspapers got involved, and the entire Make Poverty History thing got hijacked by this patronising "get together and show you care about the poor" crowd.
What never came across was the point of the Make Poverty History campaign. It became this catch-all charity thing and the issues regarding 3rd World Debt and Corporate/Social Responsibility in developing countries got lost.
On a more positive note, the JC song is indeed excellent.
To do that, as a culture, we need to radically change our mindset, and whilst maybe making people think about it for a week, Live 8 did little to help.
And, whilst it was a fun day out for everyone to come together, enjoy some music and feel good about showing they care about starving children, it was absolutely useless in terms of its main aim - i.e. to make people aware of the damage we do to poorer countries through crippling debts, trade tarrifs etc.
I believe the original Live Aid's function was largely a money-raising thing - a 24 hour appeal to raise as much money as possible and obviously the concert worked in that context.
But, as Live 8 was not about raising money but raising awareness, a large concert like that simply wasn't appropriate to do the job.
It was a global media exercise in research for downloading direct from TV advertising
It was a global advert for Nokia and AOL (who collected the 30million email addresses)
It reinforced the stereotype that Africa is a poor continent that can't achieve anything for itself without the 'generosity' of the global industrial capitalist monarchs
It singularly failed to address the fact that the state of the continent of Africa is entirely the fault of the colonial powers and the slave-trade profiteers that committed decades of genocide that basically underwrote the West's material pre-eminence
more than just africa.
but you're right to say that a lot of stuff isn't made in africa. labour rights abuses are more widespread in south / central america and south east asia where a majority of western manufactured goods are produced.
well, africa's problems are so complex i wouldn't even know where to start.
you've got multinationals running rampant and supporting (and even nearly running) dictatorshops in areas with oil. you've got religious and ethnic hatred causing genocide in others. you've got complete lack of government in others (somilia hasn't had a government for 15 years now). it is a real mess BUT it isn't anything that can't be sorted out if changes are made to the way the West is run.
the things that will stop corruption and warfare are successful examples of autonomous non-corrupt, non-warfaring societies reaping dividends
however, the examples given to Africa through colonialism up to the present day western domination of the globe are quite the opposite
Of course, this is not exclusive to Africa by any means. The example at large to the world is that corruption and warfare bring power and money to those that indulge in this dirty economy
It might also be worth noting that the weapons of war in Africa are, in the main, supplied from western nations and that 'aid' programs as they stand result in some countries (notably Zimbabwe - formerly the Rhodesia of Cecil Rhodes)are actively running their economies into the ground as a short cut to receiving foreign donations
'tis truly fucked up - even more so to see Bono et al (but mostly the major labels) profiteering from the conscience and guilt of the underinformed around the world who use an iPod fix as their way to block out the truth
because they think they can run stuff better than it's being run at the moment. they may become disillusioned and greedy, but it fucks me right off when they are spoken of like a separate breed of people who are just out for themselves.
because of the slave trade (and to a great extent the UK too)
and it's not just guilt about one's ancestors - the doctrine of technical and moral superiority STILL reigns supreme - how much do you actually know about Cecil Rhodes ex_cynic?
i was just making a slightly related point.
not thinking you're superior to africans is different from having to feel guilty about actions over which you, as an individual, had absolutely no influence.
Wesley K. Clark - Supreme Allied Commander, NATO 1997-2000
"There has been some controversy over the original aim of the scholarships, as Rhodes held what many believe today to be racist opinions about the superiority of the Anglo race, and his intention was to use the scholarships to educate future foreign leaders in Britain so that they could help spread British influence when they returned to their home countries.
In his will, he left his money for the establishment of a so-called secret society, that would enable Britain to rule the entire productive world. The exact words are as follows:
'To and for the establishment, promotion and development of a Secret Society, the true aim and object whereof shall be for the extension of British rule throughout the world, the perfecting of a system of emigration from the United Kingdom, and of colonisation by British subjects of all lands where the means of livelihood are attainable by energy, labour and enterprise, and especially the occupation by British settlers of the entire Continent of Africa, the Holy Land, the Valley of the Euphrates, the Islands of Cyprus and Candia, the whole of South America, the Islands of the Pacific not heretofore possessed by Great Britain, the whole of the Malay Archipelago, the seaboard of China and Japan, the ultimate recovery of the United States of America as an integral part of the British Empire, the inauguration of a system of Colonial representation in the Imperial Parliament which may tend to weld together the disjointed members of the Empire and, finally, the foundation of so great a Power as to render wars impossible, and promote the best interests of humanity. ' "
thanks. what relevance does this have for the attitudes of politicians in the present day towards the developing world, though? not being funny, just asking you to join up the gaps a bit more. i'm a bit slow today.
and there's a huge list of notable recipients, the vast majority of whom are less controversial than the three you highlighted.
i don't even know what we're arguing. someone help me out?
live8 was supposed to be an awareness raising event - it raised awareness of the Kaiser Cheifs and Razorlight when it should have been raising awareness of colonialism and the disproportianate history of tyranny that the so-called 3rd world has been subjected to
but what would taking the angle you suggest actually achieve? Unless done really cleverly, it could easily cause resentment rather than a positive outcome.
about the way to effectively communicate these complicated issues to the masses - but I'm fairly sure that Robbie Williams or Madonna prancing about onstage isn't going to do it
I'd probably suggest that there needs to be an overhaul of education in general and an engagement of the public at large in the deeper political questions
I have some ideas about how this might be achieved but they're not really relevant to a music board thread
one year* on
obviously
aaah
i love it. so fucking good to here a new jarvis song!!!!! He's still got it!
i meant
hear. its early.
It's f*cking great
I've listened to it about 50 times now
how long before it's pulled off myspace do you think?
chances of radio play?
I reckon this is definately newsworthy Mr. Roberts or Mr. Diver or whoever's on the newsdesk todays
breaking news....
by the way
if anyone wants an mp3 rather than a myspace stream, i've stuck one up on my blog; http://jamiesrunoutgroove.blogspot.com
**PET HATE ALERT**
just put cunt or fucking.
Don't star it out.
Either use swear words or don't. I love swear words. Don't constrain them, don't disfigure their faces. Enjoy them don't disguise them.
On a more useful note, it is a shame how little change actually occured.
I blame Geldof.
For everything.
Not just this.
FUCK OFF YOU CUNT!!!
better?
much better....
feels better doesn't it?
;)
oui
I'm with Tewe on the swearing
I don't entirely blame Geldolf for Live 8's failure. It was partly his fault but he had the best intentions.
The problem is that, after Geldolf got involved then the newspapers got involved, and the entire Make Poverty History thing got hijacked by this patronising "get together and show you care about the poor" crowd.
What never came across was the point of the Make Poverty History campaign. It became this catch-all charity thing and the issues regarding 3rd World Debt and Corporate/Social Responsibility in developing countries got lost.
On a more positive note, the JC song is indeed excellent.
Big days out never really change situations
To do that, as a culture, we need to radically change our mindset, and whilst maybe making people think about it for a week, Live 8 did little to help.
You're absolutely right
And, whilst it was a fun day out for everyone to come together, enjoy some music and feel good about showing they care about starving children, it was absolutely useless in terms of its main aim - i.e. to make people aware of the damage we do to poorer countries through crippling debts, trade tarrifs etc.
I believe the original Live Aid's function was largely a money-raising thing - a 24 hour appeal to raise as much money as possible and obviously the concert worked in that context.
But, as Live 8 was not about raising money but raising awareness, a large concert like that simply wasn't appropriate to do the job.
I actually have a FAR more cynical view of Live8
It was a global media exercise in research for downloading direct from TV advertising
It was a global advert for Nokia and AOL (who collected the 30million email addresses)
It reinforced the stereotype that Africa is a poor continent that can't achieve anything for itself without the 'generosity' of the global industrial capitalist monarchs
It singularly failed to address the fact that the state of the continent of Africa is entirely the fault of the colonial powers and the slave-trade profiteers that committed decades of genocide that basically underwrote the West's material pre-eminence
It made (and still makes) my blood boil
That's what I find extraordinary -
the mass ignorance which live 8 failed to address. I think the majority of the west think Africa evolved into poverty or something.
It truly is astonishing
it was like a mass brainwashing
no, it WAS a mass brainwashing
Here
I found some of my vented spleen from this time last year
http://www.drownedinsound.com/content/view/12589
Sorry about the rant
the point of this thread was:
New Jarvis Cocker Song!
yes
and that song
is truly ace.
yes
When's the album due?
wish I knew..
no word as yet
Of course nothing changes...
Making Africans better off makes us worse off. And we wouldn't want that, would we?
Still, ta for the concert Bob, have you murdered Mariah Carey yet?
how does it?
depends who you mean by 'us' i guess.
because we'd have to
change our way of live by buying less and paying more for it.
and people won't do that, will they?
do we really buy all that much stuff from africa in the first place?
i thought that was part of the problem, because their goods cannot compete due to the CAP and other such things?
the third world is
more than just africa.
but you're right to say that a lot of stuff isn't made in africa. labour rights abuses are more widespread in south / central america and south east asia where a majority of western manufactured goods are produced.
was just going from Mackem's post
re: making Africans better off.
fair enough
well, africa's problems are so complex i wouldn't even know where to start.
you've got multinationals running rampant and supporting (and even nearly running) dictatorshops in areas with oil. you've got religious and ethnic hatred causing genocide in others. you've got complete lack of government in others (somilia hasn't had a government for 15 years now). it is a real mess BUT it isn't anything that can't be sorted out if changes are made to the way the West is run.
i don't know about that
it would definitely be a good start, but such changes aren't going to stop financial corruption or ethnic warfare.
hmm
the things that will stop corruption and warfare are successful examples of autonomous non-corrupt, non-warfaring societies reaping dividends
however, the examples given to Africa through colonialism up to the present day western domination of the globe are quite the opposite
Of course, this is not exclusive to Africa by any means. The example at large to the world is that corruption and warfare bring power and money to those that indulge in this dirty economy
It might also be worth noting that the weapons of war in Africa are, in the main, supplied from western nations and that 'aid' programs as they stand result in some countries (notably Zimbabwe - formerly the Rhodesia of Cecil Rhodes)are actively running their economies into the ground as a short cut to receiving foreign donations
'tis truly fucked up - even more so to see Bono et al (but mostly the major labels) profiteering from the conscience and guilt of the underinformed around the world who use an iPod fix as their way to block out the truth
politicians become politicians
because they think they can run stuff better than it's being run at the moment. they may become disillusioned and greedy, but it fucks me right off when they are spoken of like a separate breed of people who are just out for themselves.
what about those who went to Oxford
on a Rhodes Schoalarship ? - there's a fair few of them
surely they know something useful about the rape of Africa by colonial morons and the debt WE owe THEM
is there really much point
feeling guilty about things done by one's ancestors?
like the whole apologising for the holocaust and the slave trade and that
can fuck right off.
Seeing as we're directly benefitting
from their actions, I'd say yes.
the US is a superpower
because of the slave trade (and to a great extent the UK too)
and it's not just guilt about one's ancestors - the doctrine of technical and moral superiority STILL reigns supreme - how much do you actually know about Cecil Rhodes ex_cynic?
absolutely nothing
i was just making a slightly related point.
not thinking you're superior to africans is different from having to feel guilty about actions over which you, as an individual, had absolutely no influence.
in case you're wondering
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodes_Scholarship
three notable scholarship students in the 60s
Bill Clinton
R. James Woolsey - head of CIA 1993-1995
Wesley K. Clark - Supreme Allied Commander, NATO 1997-2000
"There has been some controversy over the original aim of the scholarships, as Rhodes held what many believe today to be racist opinions about the superiority of the Anglo race, and his intention was to use the scholarships to educate future foreign leaders in Britain so that they could help spread British influence when they returned to their home countries.
In his will, he left his money for the establishment of a so-called secret society, that would enable Britain to rule the entire productive world. The exact words are as follows:
'To and for the establishment, promotion and development of a Secret Society, the true aim and object whereof shall be for the extension of British rule throughout the world, the perfecting of a system of emigration from the United Kingdom, and of colonisation by British subjects of all lands where the means of livelihood are attainable by energy, labour and enterprise, and especially the occupation by British settlers of the entire Continent of Africa, the Holy Land, the Valley of the Euphrates, the Islands of Cyprus and Candia, the whole of South America, the Islands of the Pacific not heretofore possessed by Great Britain, the whole of the Malay Archipelago, the seaboard of China and Japan, the ultimate recovery of the United States of America as an integral part of the British Empire, the inauguration of a system of Colonial representation in the Imperial Parliament which may tend to weld together the disjointed members of the Empire and, finally, the foundation of so great a Power as to render wars impossible, and promote the best interests of humanity. ' "
interesting
thanks. what relevance does this have for the attitudes of politicians in the present day towards the developing world, though? not being funny, just asking you to join up the gaps a bit more. i'm a bit slow today.
and there's a huge list of notable recipients, the vast majority of whom are less controversial than the three you highlighted.
i don't even know what we're arguing. someone help me out?
I am arguing that
live8 was supposed to be an awareness raising event - it raised awareness of the Kaiser Cheifs and Razorlight when it should have been raising awareness of colonialism and the disproportianate history of tyranny that the so-called 3rd world has been subjected to
it definitely didn't achieve its potential, agreed
but what would taking the angle you suggest actually achieve? Unless done really cleverly, it could easily cause resentment rather than a positive outcome.
not really sure
about the way to effectively communicate these complicated issues to the masses - but I'm fairly sure that Robbie Williams or Madonna prancing about onstage isn't going to do it
I'd probably suggest that there needs to be an overhaul of education in general and an engagement of the public at large in the deeper political questions
I have some ideas about how this might be achieved but they're not really relevant to a music board thread
It's certainly a vastly complicated issue
this is fantastic.
i miss jarvis :'(
by the way
In case you have trouble with the link Jarvis has moved to
www.myspace.com/jarvspace
as he's about to laucnh his website
www.jarvspace.com